Hamtramck, USA: A Multicultural Landscape
The US is a nation of immigrants. And there's no better example of this than Hamtramck, Michigan, America's first Muslim-majority city.
No bigger than two square miles, Hamtramck is home to a myriad of nationalities and ethnic groups. Over 30 different languages can be heard on its streets.
Using a city government election as a backdrop, producers and directors Justin Feltman and Razi Jafri eloquently capture the dynamism stemming from successive waves of immigration.
Is America a melting pot or a mosaic? Or does it matter what we call it? We find out as we catch up with Justin and Razi from their homes in Washington, DC, and Hamtramck, Michigan.
They tell us how they managed to gain such unprecedented access, and formed such close relationships with their subjects.
Hamtramck, USA is a deep dive into multiculturalism and what the future landscape of America could look like.
“Our nation is changing. Our demographics are changing very quickly and there’s a lot to be learnt from places like Hamtramck” - Razi Jafri
Time Stamps:
02:56 - The multicultural nature of America.
03:41 - Meeting our guests.
05:26 - Hamtramck USA and where it’s being released.
08:35 - The issues with Hamtramck being a Muslim-majority city.
09:45 - What the film is about.
11:50 - The inspiration behind the film was.
13:24 - The shifting demographics of the city and how these affected the election.
18:20 - How Razi and Justin gained access and built such good relationships with the locals.
21:02 - The underlying lessons the documentary examines.
24:02 - Our first clip on the last in a hundred year line of polish mayors.
28:12 - What Justin expected to see when he first went to Hamtramck.
30:36 - The lessons Razi wants viewers to take away from the film.
33:46 - The strong role of religion in Hamtramck and how that affects the urban soundscape.
37:29 - How having mixed religions in a community still gives residents a shared commonality.
39:19 - Whether America is a melting pot or a mosaic, and which should we strive for.
44:01 - Opportunities for documentaries as educational tools.
45:40 - The uncertainty there is with reopening film festivals.
47:06 - The films the two of them are now working on.
50:02 - Who Justin’s and Razi’s main influences are.
Resources:
Hamtramck, USA
Hamtramck Documentary on Twitter and Facebook
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Justin Feltman:
Connect with Razi Jafri:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 22 - Hamtramck, USA: A Multicultural Landscape
0:00
My name is Razi Jafri. I am a Detroit based documentary photographer and filmmaker.
0:06
My name is Justin Feltman. I am a Washington DC based filmmaker.
0:14
I used to collect the list of graduates every year because I was really interested in the last names of the graduates, and watched that list of names shift to Bosnians in the early 90s. And then more and more Bangladeshi names and Yemeni names. And I've realized that I am probably the last in the hundred year line of Polish mayors.
0:43
Hamtramck, Michigan, has become the first Muslim majority city in America.
1:10
Inshallah on November 7th as well, inshallah we'll unify together as one, and inshallah we accomplish the unaccomplished prior.
1:18
If you like to think, I have some idea to restart and what about that administration.
1:24
If you care about this community and community's honor, come out and vote.
1:31
Accomplished and happy. This is our... This is our time to shine.
1:40
(names) Bangladeshi, Polish, African American, American, Polish American, African American, Yemeni, Bangladeshi, China
1:58
People didn't even think about who's being the President of the United States, and tonight they want to know who will be the mayor of Hamtramck. 2 square miles.
2:09
That is the trailer for Hamtramck, USA. And this is Factual America.
2:15
Factual America is produced by Alamo pictures, a production company specializing in documentaries, television and shorts about the USA for an international audience. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood, and every week we look at America through the lens of documentary filmmaking by interviewing filmmakers and experts on the American experience. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Alamo pictures to be the first to hear about new productions, to find out where you can see our films and to connect with our team.
2:56
The US is a land of immigrants. And there's no better example of this than Hamtramck, Michigan. No bigger than two square miles, this city surrounded by Detroit is home to a myriad of nationalities and ethnic groups, and over 30 different languages can be heard on its streets. Using a city government election as a backdrop, producers and directors Justin Feltman and Razi Jafri eloquently capture the dynamism stemming from successive waves of immigration. Is America a melting pot or a mosaic? Or does it matter what we call it? We'll find out as we catch up with Justin and Razi, from their homes in Washington, DC, and Hamtramck, Michigan. Justin Feltman and Razi Jafri, welcome to Factual America. It's good to finally meet you.
3:43
Nice to meet you, too. Thank you for having us.
3:45
Yeah, I think we were supposed to get together at South by Southwest in March. But obviously that never happened. I think we didn't really even have an idea of what we were getting ourselves into back then. But how are you doing? I'll start with Razi.
4:00
I'm doing really well. Yeah, I mean, considering the circumstances. You know, Justin and I are busy with new projects. And, you know, we've been working on a couple of things that we have going on with Hamtramck in terms of educational partnerships, so I'm doing pretty good.
4:20
Okay, and everything's okay in Detroit? I mean, I know Detroit was a bit of an epicenter, mini epicenter, I guess there few months ago, but...
4:27
Yeah, definitely. I mean, Detroit being one of the poorest cities in America, and one of the blackest, the blackest large city in the United States, it was affected disproportionately. More than even the surrounding areas. So we were hit really hard with the Coronavirus.
4:47
And Justin, how are things in Washington DC? I think you've got different types of storms there, but...
4:52
Yeah, now, things are going pretty well. As Razi said it's a good time to kind of work on our next projects. Not a good time to shoot projects, but a great, great time to lay the groundwork for future projects. That's kind of what's been keeping us busy.
5:07
Well excellent, look forward to talking about some of those future projects later on the podcast. But let's talk about the film that brings you here. And the one that we were going to discuss and was actually supposed to premiere at South by South West. That's Hamtramck, USA. Razi, where can we see this film? Or has it been released yet?
5:33
It has not been released yet. We're sort of still exploring distribution options for the film. The film is screening virtually at several film festivals. Most recently, the DOXA - International documentary festival in Vancouver, and the Melbourne International Documentary Festival in Australia. They had virtual screenings, they were geo locked, so unless you lived in British Columbia, or Australia, you wouldn't be able to see it. And then we're shooting for early next year for public television broadcast.
6:12
Well, I was actually I had this one down for Justin, because I wasn't sure exactly where everyone is from. I was gonna ask you, maybe, well, first of all we've seen, our listeners have heard, or we've got a few people on YouTube who've watched the trailer. So, it's called Hamtramck, USA again. Justin, I was going to ask you to tell us something about Hamtramck or would Razi, being the Detroit based filmmaker, rather take that one?
6:36
Razi currently lives in Hamtramck so if he wants to tackle this...
6:41
So tell us, let the world know something about Hamtramck.
6:45
Hamtramck is a very special place. You know, there was a really incredible article a couple years ago in the Detroit Free Press that described Hamtramck as Michigan's Ellis Island. That was the headline from the article in the Detroit Free Press. And it couldn't be more fitting because it's a community that has always accepted immigrants and refugees, you know, when they're arriving to the United States. And just to kind of give a sense of the geography of where Hamtramck is in the region and in the country, Hamtramck is in the state of Michigan. It's actually inside Detroit. Detroit is big enough where it actually has two other cities inside of its boundaries. Hamtramck being one of them, Highland Park, being the other one. And for most of its history, Hamtramck was a majority Eastern European city, predominantly Polish, Polish American, Hungarian, Ukrainian people occupied the city and then over the last 25 to 30 years, the demographics really started shifting in Hamtramck and you had more people arriving to the city from places like Bangladesh and Yemen. And then you also have people moving to Hamtramck from places like Queens, in New York. So you've seen this influx of in migration from people from various different backgrounds. And so the demographics of the city have totally shifted from Eastern European to South Asian and Middle Eastern. And so now, Hamtramcks, I guess one of its claims to fame is that it's America's first Muslim majority city.
8:29
And is that, I mean, what does that, what does that mean? That it's the first Muslim majority city, Razi?
8:35
Well, you know, I think in today's sort of political climate, it means a lot. In the sense that, you know, Muslims are one of the more marginalized and misunderstood religious communities in the United States. And so what does it mean when Muslims are residents of a community in a majority fashion and, and on the other side, it really doesn't mean anything. In the sense that, you know, democracy and life in Hamtramck is no different than what life and democracy would be like in any other working class town in America. Because the common issues, you know, for the community, for the communities of Hamtramck are issues around class, you know - schools, safety, potholes, things like that. And so I think both things are pretty, um, both things are worth noting. That it's both remarkable and unremarkable in that regard.
9:29
I think that's well summarized and maybe it takes us to Justin. Justin, maybe you can, for our listeners again, most will have not seen the film. Maybe you can give us a synopsis of what this film is about.
9:44
Yeah, the film kind of covers life and democracy in America's Muslim, first Muslim majority city, Hamtramck, Michigan. When we started working on the film, we knew the election would be a central, kind of driving, from a narrative standpoint. But we also knew that what really makes this place special is the daily contributions and creation of the community that goes beyond just voting. There's many ways of contributing to the city and we wanted to make sure that we included all of those. There's a lot of, you know, slice of life kind of montages. Whether that's, you know, religious life, so churches, mosques. Or with the arts, so there's, you know, performances, arts and crafts kind of fairs, and then just cultural celebrations. It seems like every weekend, there's at least four events happening in this tiny little two square mile town, two square miles. And, you know, I think that's what makes this place special. As Razi kind of was saying is part of it's very unremarkable, but there is something very remarkable in that as well. A lot of it, you know, for instance, one of their biggest celebrations is a Labor Day Parade. And you know, it may look a little different, but it still hits the same notes that any other Labor Day Parade does.
11:16
But I think, and maybe this won't sell the film, but what you've touched, both of you've touched on this is some of the elements that are so unremarkable about Hamtramck, what you capture with your film. It is everyday life and this election that you've focused on, I mean. You said that it's obviously a narrative driver. But when you went to make this film did you think - no, we're definitely making it about this election, or was it more about - we're making a film about Hamtramck?
11:48
Yeah, I think we wanted to find, well, Razi and I had met during the 2016 election. I was in town working on a documentary film on like marginalized voices in American democracy. And after the results came in Razi and I were looking for a project to work on together. And for us, we knew Hamtramck would be where we wanted to be, would be where we wanted to go, sorry. And we were looking for that narrative. The election was coming up for mayor, the previous election had gotten them the first Muslim majority City Council. And so we figured, well, this would probably be a historically significant election. Let's cover this one. So it wasn't our immediate, you know, it wasn't necessarily what we wanted to tell, but I think it made the most sense. And it made a lot of sense to include that. And, you know, as we covered it, we knew that this was the important thread to really kind of bring the town on together. And, you know, especially post-2016- what does that democracy look like, what does true representation look like? And those are themes that, you know, we hope to tell throughout the film.
13:09
And we'll try not to give away. We won't give away too much about the film, obviously. But Razi, maybe you rcan set the scene in terms of this election. Justin's already mentioned - it's a mayoral and a city council election. But maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that.
13:24
Yeah. And I think it's a great question. And I think there's a couple of things that I can sort of touch on, you know, as leading into my answer. And so, I was mentioning before, how the demographics of the town had really shifted. And so there were these seminal moments in Hamtramck's history, you know, with plant closures and sort of both economic and cultural milestones and significant events that took place in the city. And with, you know, plant closures sort of driving some of the demographic shifts, when you have these new communities coming in and establishing neighborhoods that were often left vacant by the eggressing Polish community or the existing community that was already there. Then, as things, you know, continue to grow and proliferate amongst these minority communities that are newer that are coming into Hamtramck, they're making more and more cultural inroads into the city through cultural representation, and through representation in politics. And so I think it was in 2004, when there was a controversy brewing around the Muslim call to prayer being broadcast on loudspeakers throughout the city of Hamtramck. And so this is, you know, obviously, 13-14 years before our film takes place. But, you know, these are some of the things that are starting to develop and starting to take place in Hamtramck leading up, you know, to the election. And then in 2013, was when the city council becomes a majority Muslim City Council. And it's comprised of, you know, members of the Bangladeshi community, but also members of the Yemeni community. And so that kind of leads us into the current period where Hamtramck finds itself under emergency management, emergency financial management. You know, it's economically distressed. It's a working class, impoverished community, you know, that's in a way united by class. And so that's a little bit of the backdrop. And then, of course, we have the greater political climate that's taking place in the United States. That to the 2016 presidential election that Justin was alluding to, at least by the candidate at the time, Donald Trump was based on a largely anti immigrant, anti muslim, you know, campaign. And so a place like Hamtramck which is majority Muslim, majority immigrant town, you know, creates an amazing backstory for a way to tell the story of a changing America. And so that's kind of what some of the lenses that we were looking at and why Hamtramck was so appealing. In terms of anything particular about that year, I would say that there was nothing really particularly special, you know, about the year, you know, 2017, other than it being on the heels of the 2016 election. And it's sort of a shift, you know, but it's a shift that's a part of like a 10-year, 5-year shift in the political change that's taking place in Hamtramck through more and more representation through City Hall. And so that's kind of the context behind the years leading up to the year that we shot our film.
16:54
And so you've got the, the city mayor, is Karen Majewski, is of the Polish community and she's quite, quite eloquent, isn't she about her place in history? Isn't she? She's very well aware. I mean, I'm not giving away anything too much if I say she says, you know - I know I'm the last in the line of Polish mayors in this town. And then you've got the two challengers both, both are Muslims. Are they both from the Bangladeshi community? Are they?
17:26
Kamal and Hassan. Yes.
17:28
And then you've got the fellow, I think you focus, you've got many characters like any good doc's got. But you've got especially this guy, Fadel El Marsumi, I think, going for Council, from the Yemeni community. And he's a very interesting fellow too. I think there's quite a, quite a cast of, we say cast of characters usually sometimes wrongly meaning zany or whatever, but they're very compelling bunch of people, I think. I mean, what struck me, I mean, many things have struck me about this film. And thank you so much for the screener. Justin, how did you gain so much access? I mean, you guys were there for a long time, weren't you? Because you start off summer, you got the primary in August and you take it all the way to, to November of that year. So how did you gain all that access? And how receptive were people to you filming?
18:21
Yeah, you know, we actually started pretty much that same week that Trump got elected. You know, when I talked to Razi about the idea, we both were like, Oh, yeah, we need to film this, this Hamtramck election. And so I just left my film gear with him. I said, start shooting. I'll move up there in a couple months, and I'll see you soon. So yeah, I kind of, was during that time, still coming up as much as possible, probably at least twice or three times a month. And then finally moved up there. And yeah, I think the big part of why people were so receptive is because we were always around, you know. We could show genuine interest. And I think they also appreciated that we weren't trying to sensationalize what was going on there. I think they're used to a lot of people kind of drop it in for a weekend, or a day or something, and really trying to make like a very sensational story. A kind of clash of the civilizations kind of thing. And that was never of an interest to us. And I think, you know, we invested enough time that I think that they grew to kind of appreciate what we were trying to do. And I mean, I also would say that Hamtramck is a very welcoming town. People are genuinely open in ways that never cease to amaze us.
19:47
I don't know which one was, or you both were holding cameras, but did I catch in one scene, one of the people tried to give you a hug?
19:54
Yes, that was me.
19:56
Well, I'll leave it there but I thought it was very touching. It was like the guy is like oh, come on, you know. You just gonna keep rolling or you gonna let me give you a hug? Or something to that effect.
20:05
Yeah, we developed really, we developed really great relationships with people. And I think, you know, part of it was, you know, Justin and I showing up without the cameras often. And spending time with people in their places of business and their homes and in social events. And yeah, Justin, I think moving to Hamtramck was a big deal, you know, for six months of production. I eventually also moved to Hamtramck. I live there now. And I think so much of that access was because, you know, of the trust that we were able to build up by showing up and asking good questions and spending time with people. And I think that that was a big part of it.
20:48
And I think you've already touched on this a bit. But the question I often ask is - it's about Hamtramck, it's about this election, certainly that drives the narrative. But Razi, what is this film really about?
21:01
Well, I think, you know, there's a great, you know, Hamtramck is a great case study. Our nation is changing. Our demographics are changing very quickly. And, you know, there's a lot to be learned from places like Hamtramck because it's not the only city that looks like, sorry, that has had its demographic shifted so quickly. And so there's a lot of lessons to be learned from Hamtramcks achievements and its failures. And for us, I think right now, in this particularly tumultuous time in our history, both because of the Coronavirus and police brutality and racial profiling and some of the other racial tensions that we're seeing in our country, you know, we have to ask ourselves some really deep questions. What kind of a nation are we looking for, knowing that our country is changing? And, you know, do we embrace, do we embrace pluralism and do we embrace multiculturalism? Or shall we remain divided? Or continue to remain divided? And, obviously Justin I have a particular, you know, take on that issue. And so what we're trying to show is how can communities work together in the United States. And it's not just even the United States, the demographics are shifting all over the world. And you see the rise of nationalism in not only Europe, but also in Asia and South Asia and East Asia. So how is it that humanity is going to reconcile our different relationships that we have with our communities that live, you know, are in our nation as neighbors, as members of our community, as new members of our communities? And I think, you know, we have a broad appeal with our film because it touches on a lot of these things. There's also a lot of international connections through things like the conflicts, the geopolitics and conflicts of the modern Middle East. Hamtramck has welcomed a lot of refugees from places like Iraq, Syria, and Yemen over the last 10 years as this crisis has been unfolding internationally. And so as people get resettled in places like Germany and the United States, you know, what is that going to look like? Are we going to embrace people? Are we going to segregate people? These are all questions that we explore and examine and touch upon in our film. So therefore, there is this universal lesson there for everybody.
23:29
I think this takes us to a good point to actually watch or listen to a clip from the film that you've gracefully provided us with. I think, if maybe Justin, you can give us a bit of a introduction here. We've already been introduced to the Hamtramck through the trailer and to Mayor Karen Majewski. But this gives us a little bit more of a feel for one of the other mayoral candidates and sort of an homage really to Hamtramck.
24:02
Yeah. In the film, this is actually right after a kind of montage of news footage that is kind of putting out scare tactics, I would say, it would be fair, about what Hamtramck is like. And so we're going from this and then diving into a candidate who's running for mayor Kemal Rockman. And it's him with his family in a very everyday kind of setting. And he's talking about why he's getting involved, and what he feels he wants for Hamtramck. And then we're going into kind of daily life in the city.
24:43
Excellent. All right. Well, let's listen to that clip. And we'll be providing you, our listeners, with a break. And we'll then welcome you back to Factual America.
24:55
You're listening to Factual America, subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter at Alamo pictures to keep up to date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the program, our guests and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.
25:16
In the Hamtramck, we live on 30 foot lots. We see each other, we smell each other's foods, we hear each other's languages, we shop in the same shops. I have a PhD in American culture with a focus on immigration and ethnicity. So this is the perfect place.
Do you guys live here? Any of you live here? Oh, okay. Thanks. Hi, I'm the mayor of Hamtramck, so... Nice to see you guys.
25:48
All right.
25:57
So this is how a lot of work gets done. I don't know if they have a permit or not. But lots of stuff happens on the weekends when inspectors aren't going around.
What's that? Oh, yeah.
26:21
It fell off my... uh... I put it, I put it in my empty can there and it flew out last night. Thank you.
26:32
You're welcome.
26:33
No, I already voted absentee ballot.
26:36
Great. Thanks.
I used to collect the list of graduates every year because I was really interested in the last names of the graduates. And watch that list of names shift to Bosnians in the early 90s. And then more and more Bangladeshi names and Yemeni names. And I've realized that I am probably the last in the hundred year line of Polish mayors.
27:11
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Justin Feltman and Razi Jafri, the directors and producers of Hamtramck, USA. I want to talk a little bit more about the project and the actual filming at this point, if I may. And that was a lovely clip that I think really showcases what the film's about. I think we've already talked about how you guys kind of got involved. Justin, what, well you actually moved to Hamtramck. I know you did to, Razi, but what did you expect to find, Justin? Maybe this goes back to before 2016 or when you first encountered Hamtramck. And, follow up question, which I'll put to you now, you can answer them as part of your response, is Hamtramck really this idealic in some ways? And is it in some ways too good to be true? But, I'll pose that to you. What do you think?
28:12
I think when I first was coming there, you know, I knew Hamtramck from the footage we had seen on the news. And that gives you a very negative, tensions kind of running high at all points, kind of feel for the city. And I didn't find that there. When we actually got there. You know, I would say is it really that idealic? Maybe not. But I do think there's an honest soul searching going on in that city right now amongst a lot of leaders, a lot of community leaders and a lot of activists that are really trying to see, to make a better future. Really trying to apply some of the lessons learned. You know, it is in some ways, as Razi was speaking of earlier, you know, many communities are going through something similar. And so we kind of wanted to show that soul searching a bit in Hamtramck. We really wanted to put that first and foremost.
29:22
And I think, I mean, isn't this, isn't this really sort of the history of the United States? I mean, you've had waves and waves of immigrants. So, the Irish came, and then the Italian wave came in and pushed, didn't push them out, but they were the next ones to come in. And then you get a Puerto Rican wave and you get all these different waves of immigrants to certain urban locales. And it just seems to me, what I brought, how it spoke to me was like, I felt like I was watching. It would have been great if you guys could go back in time and film New York in the 1890s. And you know, different time periods in the US where you had these waves of immigration.
30:05
Yeah, there was this interesting article that we found in some Chicago newspaper, where it kind of talked about Hamtramck, and I think it was in the 30s. And they called it like a Polish no-go zone, basically. That if you don't speak Polish, you're not allowed into the city limits, basically. And it's complete anarchy. And it's, you know, all these scare tactics. They're like, oh, this this rhymes.
30:31
Exactly. I mean, Razi, what lessons do you want viewers to take away once they finally get to see this film?
30:37
Well, I think, you know, one of the, some of the big things that we want people to take away from the film is just a more of a nuanced understanding of, you know, immigrant communities and their sense, the sense of responsibility that a lot of immigrant communities feel about civic engagement and democracy. You know, one of the things that I think is often falsely, you know, a lot of these communities that are falsely accused of is that they only care about themselves. And I think one of the examples that you learn from the film is how engaged the candidates are in communities that are outside of their own, not just, you know, people like, you know, come on and, and Muhammad and Fadul, but also people like Karen, who's a white polish, you know, person, you know, and she's a woman and she's, you know, she's very, in a very savvy way connecting to all these other communities. And I think, you know, one of the big things you realize is that the people that are running for office in these places, they also care about, you know, clean roads, and, you know, public safety and better schools and clean water and things like that some of these issues that are regional issues or universal issues around the country. And so I think that's one of the big takeaways is that, you know, immigrants are not just here to take advantage of the benefits of living in the United States. They actually give back and ways that you know, more ways often than American born, you know, citizens do. And so I think that's like one of the big takeaways. And the other thing is to sort of understand the innocuous nature of what some of these communities what life is like in some of these communities, you know, and that's the thing about whether this Hamtramck is a remarkable place an idyllic place, or is it an unremarkable place? Well, it's really kind of both, you know, and so I think that's another thing where there's a hypercharged lens on him traffic, particularly through the media, you know, and I'll just, you know, like, you know, Fox News has a particular lens on Hamtramck because it has, you know, first Muslim majority city and in a way Muslims are, you know, the occupying the major leadership roles in the city. And if Islam is the kind of the one of the more toxic ideologies that the way people people perceive it to be, then what does it look like when Muslims are engaging in the political process? You know? And so these are critical questions to sort of think about and lessons to take away from in the film. It's a good point, I think, how many times do they does one of the candidates talk about cheap water and clean? Yeah, make sure your streets are clean and your potholes are filled and things like that. It's It's It's grassroots politics as it's been in the US for for as long as anyone can remember. I think.
33:33
I mean, Justin, are you the sound guy, I think or it doesn't have to be. there's a there's a tolling Bell motif that I picked up in the film. Yeah. Do you want to talk about saying a little something about that?
33:46
Yeah, well that, you know, Hamtramck religion really is out loud. You know, you you hear the st Florin which is a Catholic Church. It is the largest building or a tallest building in Hamtramck and so you can throughout the city hear the bells and they are Raza correct me if I'm wrong, there's eight moss in Hamtramck.
34:13
I think there's about 12 now. Yeah.
34:15
Okay. And you know, so you hear the call of prayer daily as well. And then it's this, this this, it really kind of blends into the urban soundscape really beautifully. And I mean, you know, sometimes, you know, we just be filming regular things, and you kind of hear both going off around the same time. And so it was always kind of there kind of constantly whether we wanted it to be a motif or not, you know it, it certainly makes its way into the film. And so yeah, we just really embraced that with
34:53
many documentary films. You're just sort of straddling the intersections of ethnography and journalism and back filmmaking. And so I think that's a part of us that was really interested in the sort of the sensory experience of him traffic. And I think, you know, Justin and I tried to capture some of those moments of the sights, the sounds, the smells, the tastes, you know, bumping up against people, the celebrations and, you know, those are definitely things that we wanted to lift out. And I think the more time we spent in the city, the more acutely attuned we became, to some of those elements, that some of those sensory elements that we were experiencing, that ended up, you know, making it into the film, the buildings in Hamtramck, especially the homes were kind of put up in a hurry along the boom of the auto industry. And so they're very thin walls and they're maximize the lot. So you're always right, bumping up next to each other. So it's always present in your life is any sounds outside and you know, there's also a lot of music venues. So you hear music you hear religious ceremonies or, you know, call the prayers, the bells. So it's all these things that as Rosie saying, it's really about the sensory experience of Hamtramck. And so we really wanted to kind of let that play throughout the film. And you know, a lot of these kind of scenes kind of bumped in together. Because it's just kind of, you're always in Hamtramck. There's no escaping it when you're in him driving.
36:26
You know, it's an interesting point you raised because one thing I kept thinking of, because I used to live in a town just outside of Boston, Massachusetts, where this the housing was very similar to stack them higher, a little bit, but you felt like if you put your hand out the window, you would touch your neighbors in the house next door. I mean, it was that, you know, I think, I think the mayor talks about these 30 foot square lots or something like that. Yeah. I mean, you were on that point that you were mentioning Rosie, I just had a question is that do you think one thing that if you look at the history of of Poland and polish, and then these, these people from the Middle East and South Asians that have come is, do you think that one thing that helps here is that at least even culturally, these are people of faith? Or maybe as Muslims would say they're all people have the book. I mean, it's kind of a, do you think that is an element that there's a sort of a commonality there that helps with this this engagement?
37:29
Yeah. I mean, it's it's a great question. I mean, I think, as communities become more comfortable with each other, it does help. However, I think it's a source of tension, particularly in the early periods, you know, when these communities don't really know one another. And so I think that's where you get some of the tension and, you know, and we do sort of touch on that a little bit in the film, particularly around issues like the call to prayer. So I think initially, it's it's always this sort of point of time. And then as time goes on, it does become something sort of sort of bonded over and, you know, one of the things that we show is how different candidates will go to the different houses of worship in the community. You know, Karen goes to mosques and Kemal goes to churches and, and so, you know, yeah, I think I think a lot of it just has to do with time, you know, but I think religion is deeply deeply important for people you know, from Poland, Polish Catholic, you know, from people from Yemen, and Bangladesh, these are deeply religious countries have and so they carry those traditions with them. And religion is very visible and tragic, you know, as Justin was saying, through the sounds, but through the architecture through the design through the, you know, sort of urban vernaculars that you see, kind of everyday on the streets, clothing, you know, All that stuff it's it's it's a lot of it is expressing religious life in the city.
39:07
One last question on this this part of the podcast for both of you. So melting pot or Mosaic, what is the United States? Justin Trudeau next?
39:19
I think the the the melting pot, you know, implies that things kind of melt down into a monoculture. And I think there's some that would prefer that, but I don't think that's a very, I wouldn't personally prefer it. And I don't think it's very realistic. Statement either, because I mean, I believe, you know, if that was, well, that's not the case for for a lot of people, correct. Like, I mean, you know, it's the myth of the model minority is that, you know, that they would be able to meltdown and fit in, but that's never the case. And so I think you No, I think more of the mosaic would be more of something we should be striving for. And because, you know, everyone plays a beautiful part, and, you know, celebrating differences and different perspectives, is, I think, a much better way of building a multicultural society. And what do you think Rosie?
40:21
Well, I mean, you know, there's sort of two takes on it. Like you're saying, there's this sort of melting pot. And today, more and more, I think thought leaders on the topic are think of America as a salad bowl, or would like to think of America as a salad bowl where you have separate pieces, you know, but they're part of the same, you know, dish. And I think it's interesting when you think about things like culinary traditions, like what is American food, you know, and it's, it's, it's a mishmash of all these different culinary traditions, you know, borrowed, stolen, appropriated, mixed and matched and, you know, fused with other things. And I think one of the great things about a marriage America is that it is a type of a multicultural experiment. I mean, we really haven't seen this, you know, and it's being experienced in other parts of the world as well, and particularly in western and northern Europe. But you don't see it anywhere and more than you see it in the United States. And a lot of it has to do with liberal immigration policies of the 1960s where you've had a boom of people coming in from all over, you know, and you sort of break it down to interpersonal relationships and, and marriages and things like that and how families are developing and growing. You know, we're less segregated in a lot of ways. We're still highly, highly segregated, particularly in metropolitan areas, but you're seeing a lot more intermarriage, you're seeing a lot more desire for people to want to know about each other's cultures. I agree with Justin. I mean, I would like to see more celebration of different cultures and in the type of a mosaic landscape. You know, as more You know, as our country becomes more diverse, I think it would be kind of a loss if we all sort of melted into a monoculture. And I think that's one of the great things to celebrate about America, you know, is that we have all these different things and sort of to bring it back into him trimix experience you know, if you were to sort of take a year of him trimix life through festivals, you have the you know, Pinsky day, you know, Fat Tuesday before the start of Lent, where now the majority of people that are lining up, you know, to get these donuts or these oversized Pinsky, doughnuts are non polish, you know, and on that day, everybody is polish, you know, and then people really celebrate that you know, and then there's the EAD, holidays and the EAD festivals that take place in Hamtramck where, of course you have a lot of Muslims that are coming out but when there's a big Carnival that's celebrating this holiday, all kinds of kids are going to come. You know if you look at a place like Hamtramck High School, which has like 35 or 37 Official Languages, it's really incredible to see that taking place on a grassroots level. And so my hope is that, you know, we'll continue to celebrate this diversity in a way that recognizes our differences and celebrates the differences, but also makes us stronger and more culturally literate, which I think is one of the ways we become a more peaceful society.
43:23
I'll let you have the last word on that. That one, I think what I would like to talk about just, well, it's maybe not as as uplifting but just to talk about your own experiences now with the film world turned upside down. And Justin, as we talked about earlier, we You're so to the world premiere at South by Southwest that didn't happen. I think Rosie's already said that you've been had some been shown at a couple film festivals, but what's what's happened over the last four months for you in terms of this film and and where where are things headed? With with him tremec. USA?
44:01
Well, I would say the one thing that we're looking forward to that we've we've done a few educational screenings and I think those have gone really well from a remotes standpoint. And I think, you know, as, as it seems like every day, a new major college is announcing they're going online for next year. I think this is a great opportunity for documentaries to kind of lead curriculum in many ways. It makes for a great remote study. And I think that's, you know, that's a big focus that we're we're working on right now. We've we've gotten an impact grant, to kind of start this. And yeah, that's one of the positives that has really come out of this so far that I think we're really looking forward to going forward as well. I that's
44:50
an interesting point. Actually, in the early days of this podcast, we had a lot of academics Come on, and what was always interesting was all of them have have their favorite document go to the documentaries that they use as part of their lectures? I mean, it's, it's, in fact, I was introduced to documentaries I was not aware of because of these people are like, No, no, we show this one every year. And it works. And this is why it works and on so many different subjects. So I think that's an important point. But it was I mean, in terms of the, you know, maybe documentary film industry, how do you see the landscape change? Changing is COVID is there still room for festivals? I mean, I asked, I asked this question of other filmmakers, I seem to get a different answer each time. So be interesting to see what you think.
45:40
Well, I think you're probably getting different answers every time because the honest answer is No one knows. You know, yeah, I have no idea. You know, I don't know what to say, you know, to that, other than kind of what we're seeing right now is that, you know, the situation keeps getting extended, you know, further and further and so a lot of festivals that we were putting And other festivals that, you know that we're not a part of our, you know, have rescheduled the festivals till November and December, as as you know, anticipating that things might get better by then. But, you know, now we're starting to feel like that's not going to be a possibility. And so yeah, I mean, the short answer is we don't know. And I think, you know, it's just, it's it's shut down production for so many filmmakers on projects that they were working on. And then, you know, the funding cycles have also been affected by this as well, nonprofits and foundations have been affected by it. And so I think a lot of us are sort of trying to scramble to figure out what's next and how to adjust and how to work on projects when your ability to shoot is so limited. And you know, that's the heart of a film is your time with your subjects and your time documenting and capturing those moments that'll eventually become the lifeblood of any film. And so when you can't do that, It makes it really challenging. And you've already sort of alluded to it. What is next? for the two of you? Yeah. Well, Justin and I are, you know, working on we're collaborating on a film together, I have a film that I'm producing to documentary called loyalty which explores the life and work of three Muslim chaplains as they navigate religious freedom and Islamophobia in the military. And that film is that about 80% 90% production is completed. We had one scene to shoot, which is going to be in Mecca as two of our subjects. We're going to be performing the hajj pilgrimage, but that's indefinitely on hold now, but in the meantime, Justin and I have also been working on a new film, which is about the life of life and work of Anwar Awlaki, who was the first US citizen since the Civil War to have been hunted and killed extra judicially by the US government in 2011. And so the film explores how Anwar al Awlaki became radicalized against the United States and how the rest of the United States became radicalized against Anwar al Awlaki. And, and and Islam, Visa V, the war on terror. And so the film sort of explores these things through the war on terror, the proliferation of the drone programs, and sort of, you know, and so we're looking at this through an archival project. And so we're working with a, an archival producer. And so that's where we are with the project. Right now. We're in the research phase. We've been reading books on it and articles and just gathering as much information as we can on it. We'll look forward to seeing that. Justin, do you have any?
48:36
I mean, I'm working on a couple shorter films, one on a kind of the US his response to venereal diseases in the early 20th century during World War One they saw it as a national security issue that ended up imprisoning thousands of women and silver We're kind of examining that kind of approach and kind of how sexism and classism really kind of played into that as well. And then I'm also tomorrow actually going to West Virginia to go film, some greyhound racing. And working on a project because Florida This is the last year of greyhound racing in Florida. And there's a guy who's a trainer that moved up to West Virginia, to keep employment.
And yeah, so kind of working on that project as well.
49:34
Well, when you get these all done, you'll have to let us know and we'll well having you on again. I want to take this back to the film because actually, it's hard to believe but we're kind of coming up on time. But that's both of you. Because I have a feeling I'm well, I won't I won't suppose I know what you're going to say but I'm just curious having now seen him tremec and ask you who are your main influence It says as documentary filmmakers,
50:02
I would say one of my big influences is Steve James from Chicago. Yeah, I love and admire his work. And I've been lucky enough to have met Steve on a couple of occasions. And he's just such a nice guy. He's so down to earth. Yeah.
50:20
I mean, I hate to say this, but yeah, same. I really like Steve James's work. You know, he has a very empathic approach to filmmaking that I think we really hope to kind of bring to our filmmaking as well. And, you know, yeah, I think it's works great.
50:42
Oh, see, I mean, I went I went way back, but I'm also older. But just watching this I was. I thought back to the classic primary way, you know, I thought about Pennebaker. I thought of the maysles. I thought a salesman. I mean, yeah. I mean, if you don't mind me saying I think it's great direct cinema that you've got here with just thinking you just watch. You just let the cameras roll. And you don't even realize you're doing it. It wasn't till later. It's like, wait a minute, I've just watched. I wasn't even thinking of these terms. It was just it being entertained, but it has it has that feel to it? And I do, do appreciate it. It's high praise. Thank you so much. Well, no, it's meant it's sincere. I tell you, thank you. Well, I fortune we're gonna have to wrap up. But Justin Raja, it's been a pleasure having you on factual America. We look forward to having you again if we haven't scared you away. And just to remind our listeners out there that Justin Feldman and Razi Jafri are the directors and producers of Hamtramck USA, where you can follow them. Well, we'll have notes and links in the show notes and we'll be on the lookout for when this finally gets distributed to a wider audience. Please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. And this is factual America, signing off.
52:14
You've been listening to factual America. This podcast is produced by Elmo pictures specializing in documentaries, television and shorts about the USA for international audiences. head on down to the show notes. For more information about today's episode, our guests and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Alamo pictures, be the first to hear about new productions festival showing our films and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk