Pepsi, Where’s My Jet?

Factual America

1 Dec

Written By

In 1996 a Pepsi giveaway competition inspired college student John Leonard, a young mountain guide from Seattle, to do everything he could to claim the top prize – a Harrier jet. Backtracking a little bit, Pepsi ran a promotion where you could trade in Pepsi points for Pepsi stuff, with the top tier being a Harrier fighter jet. Realising that it was physically impossible to drink enough cans of cola to earn the necessary 7,000,000 Pepsi points, John hatched a plan that soon had him facing off against a team of corporate lawyers in his bid to get a fighter jet.

The Pepsi Where’s My jet episodes are broken down in to parts where Pepsi Exects talk about the Pepsi sweepstakes during the cola wars and how our intrepid heroes came up with the plan to legally win a fighter jet.

A David versus Goliath story for the ages, Pepsi, Where’s My Jet? – a new docuseries from Netflix – celebrates the human spirit and humanity’s boundless capacity for creativity and innovation, all against the backdrop of 1990s America.

Join Matthew Sherwood in a laugh-filled chat with the film’s award-winning director and producer, Andrew Renzi, who relays what it was like to work with Netflix, climb a mountain in Antarctica and hang out eating hoagies with Michael Avenatti.

At the end, Matthew discovers that one of Andrew’s first jobs in film was working for Wes Anderson, helping to shed a light on one of Hollywood’s most idiosyncratic filmmakers.

“There’s a difference for me between stories that are nostalgic and stories that are timeless…There’s a big draw right now to try to tell nostalgic stories…but that just doesn’t have enough teeth for me.” – Andrew Renzi

Time Stamps

00:03 – Matthew Sherwood introduces this episode’s guest, Andrew Renzi, director of Pepsi, Where’s My Jet
04:35 – Andrew explains what Pepsi, Where’s My Jet? is about
06:51 – Two David vs Goliath Battles: Pepsi vs Coca-Cola, and Pepsi vs John Leonard
7:42 – The ‘Spielbergian’ nature of John Leonard’s quest to win the harrier jet
10:01 – How Andrew learnt about John Leonard’s story
12:16 – How making Pepsi, Where’s My Jet? led to John Leonard and Todd Hoffman renewing their friendship
12:58 – Discussing what it was like getting the makers of the Pepsi harrier jet ad back together again
17:36 – Understanding the bungle that Pepsi made with their harrier jet ad
20:57 – The difference between Madison Avenue and those who genuinely thought winning the harrier jet a possibility
21:29 – The fun of making Pepsi, Where’s My Jet?
24:27 – Discussing the role of Michael Avenatti in the harrier jet case
27:59 – Recreating the famous Pepsi Challenge
30:04 – Andrew’s preference for bringing a ‘timeless’ story to the screen
33:29 – Andrew on his production team and the good fortune he had in selling the docu-series
35:04 – The challenge of deciding the docu-series’ length
36:56 – The origin of Pepsi, Where’s My Jet’s title
40:53 – Andrew looks towards at his next adventure: a train ride through India
41:42 – Working with acclaimed director Wes Anderson

Resources:

Pepsi Where’s My Jet?
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures

Transcript for Factual America Episode 114: Pepsi, Where’s My Jet?

Matthew Sherwood 00:03
Welcome to Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. This week, it is my pleasure to welcome Andrew Renzi, the award-winning director and producer of the Netflix docu-series, Pepsi, Where's My Jet? Here's the trailer.

Speaker 1 00:18
Now, the more Pepsi you drink, the more great stuff you're going to get.

Speaker 2 00:24
Play that again.

Speaker 3 00:29
No fine print came up. I don't care what anybody else says, that is a legit offer.

Speaker 4 00:34
In the 90s, Pepsi was famous for the advertising.

Speaker 5 00:39
It was a cool club to in.

Speaker 6 00:40
Different world then, different John. This commercial comes on. Harrier Jet, seven million Pepsi points. I really saw this as an opportunity to change my world. Like, I want the jet. My mind couldn't stop racing to try to figure out how to make this happen.

Speaker 7 00:57
We just couldn't drink that much Pepsi.

Speaker 8 01:01
I need to buy 1.4 million 12 packs. I knew there was one person that I could potentially get to bite on this.

Speaker 9 01:08
And then he pitched this idea. It's crazy. It's insane.

Speaker 10 01:13
Six warehouses somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 people that would cost 4.3 million dollars. But I'm reading the fine print.

Speaker 11 01:22
We found a loophole. Here we go.

Speaker 12 01:25
Bring on Pepsi.

Speaker 13 01:26
Somebody sent us a check for 700,000 dollars for the harrier Jet.

Speaker 14 01:29
What?

Speaker 15 01:30
Why?

Speaker 16 01:31
Seven million points. Harrier jet. You saw it.

Speaker 17 01:35
It's clearly a joke.

Speaker 18 01:36
This was a money grab opportunity.

Speaker 19 01:38
Then they changed the ad!

Speaker 20 01:40
We're just kidding here.

Speaker 21 01:42
A big corporation knows how to game the system. I'd use different language if I weren't on camera.

Speaker 22 01:48
This is Netflix. You can use whatever language you want.

Speaker 23 01:50
Fuck them!

Speaker 24 01:51
Pepsi went on the offence.

Speaker 25 01:53
It was in no way an admission that we had done anything wrong.

Speaker 26 01:56
It was an admission of guilt.

Speaker 27 01:57
That was above my pay grade.

Speaker 28 02:00
Legal will kill anything.

Speaker 29 02:01
It was something right out of a Tom Clancy story.

Speaker 30 02:03
I'm not going to prison over a damn jet.

Speaker 31 02:07
We needed to shake things up a little bit.

Speaker 32 02:09
Plot twist.

Speaker 33 02:10
Michael Avenatti, you can read all about him. Just Google his name.

Speaker 34 02:15
This is when things really started to get crazy.

Speaker 35 02:18
Ahh!

Speaker 36 02:18
They never figured that there ever would be a John Leonard.

Speaker 37 02:21
What'd I have to lose?

Speaker 38 02:23
He wanted that jet.

Speaker 39 02:24
I want the jet.

Speaker 40 02:25
Johnny wants the jet.

Matthew Sherwood 02:37
That was the trailer for the new Netflix docu-series, Pepsi, Where's My Jet? And this is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. When a 20 year old attempts to win a fighter jet in a Pepsi sweepstakes, he sets the stage for a David versus Goliath battle for the history books. Join us as we talk with award-winning director and producer, Andrew Renzi, about bringing this incredible story to the screen, hanging out eating hoagies with Michael Avenatti while on house arrest, and searching for antique forks for Wes Anderson. Stay tuned. Andrew Renzi, welcome to Factual America, how are things with you?

Andrew Renzi 03:19
Things are great. Thank you for being - thanks for having me, sorry.

Matthew Sherwood 03:22
Well, no, no problem. And just to remind our listeners and our viewers, we're talking with Andrew Renzi, the director and producer, among many things, I believe, of Pepsi, Where's My Jet? The new Netflix docu-series, which premiered on November 17. So, welcome, again, to the podcast, and congratulations for getting this project done, and onto Netflix. So, you must be very excited.

Andrew Renzi 03:50
Yeah, it's a fun week, for sure, to get this thing out there. It's been about a two-and-a-half year process. So, it's really fun, really excited.

Matthew Sherwood 03:58
Yeah. And I understand - I mean, I guess you're doing the dog-and-pony show, but this is your first podcast, so - so, I'm glad you're sharing your first time with us, so to speak. So, if - but for many of our audience, they will, maybe, have not seen this, yet. Now, for someone who actually grew up during the 90s, I was a little surprised how little I remembered about this. But I also understand this is quite big on social media and everything, but why don't you just set the stage for us? What is Pepsi, Where's My Jet all about? Give us a synopsis, if you don't mind.

Andrew Renzi 04:35
Yes. So, basically, you know, the story takes place in kind of what's called the Golden Age of Advertising, whereas the early 90s, when advertising was really shifting to this kind of Wild West mentality where suddenly celebrities were endorsing big brands, sort of shamelessly, without being called sell-outs. It was like, David Bowie was suddenly holding a Pepsi can; you know, one of the coolest, most idiosyncratic artists of all time, is now holding a Pepsi can. And so, there was this huge shift at that time where celebrities and culture and brands were sort of clashing in this big, big, expensive way. And so, that's kind of the foundation of the story or the backdrop. And then in the midst of all that, Pepsi came up with this ad campaign where they basically were selling Pepsi, and you could get points, and you could get sunglasses, or you could get a hat, get a leather jacket, and at the end of this, sort of, staple commercial that they made, this high school kid lands a harrier jet on school grounds, and it says, for seven million points, you can have this harrier jet and there's no fine print, there's no just kidding, there's no nothing, and the commercial ends. And, meanwhile, you know, in the farthest corner of the United States, there's this twenty year old mountain climber named John Leonard, who sees this commercial and very kind of unironically or uncynically says, I'm gonna go get that jet, I'm gonna get seven million points, and I'm gonna go get that jet.

Matthew Sherwood 06:00
And...

Andrew Renzi 06:01
And the show [is] about his journey to figure it out.

Matthew Sherwood 06:04
Yeah. And then, I mean, I think you've - obviously, you've summed it up quite well, that's pretty much Episode One, I think. But, I - no, it is an amazing time. I hadn't really, you know, it's - great thing about documentaries like this, I mean - I hadn't even really thought of how crazy and golden age of advertising the 90s were. I mean, there was this - so, the stage was that there's this big cola war, right. We'd moved from being in a Cold War, back - we're in a war era now again, but this - the 90s were like this golden era of a lot of things, you know. So, we're out of the Cold War, and now we're worried about which cola we prefer. Is that - and that - there's sort of Madison Avenue one-upmanship going on?

Andrew Renzi 06:51
Oh, for sure. And I love that about this story. I mean, there was literally a Wall Street journalist whose entire beat was the cola wars. I mean, this was a huge deal at the time, was Coke versus Pepsi. It was - this was sort of the - and the funny thing is that was looked at as kind of the David and Goliath battle in the corporate world, where Pepsi was kind of this big underdog, and Coke was always number one. And so, you kind of got this, like, David and Goliath story wrapped up in another David and Goliath story, where you have this kid that goes after this major behemoth of a brand, and that behemoth of a brand was always kind of second best.

Matthew Sherwood 07:26
And so, this kid, you're talking about, John Leonard is his name, I think I remember - and do you - I mean, was he really that naive? I mean, or...

Andrew Renzi 07:42
[The answer] is yes. And I think that that's why I love this story so much, because there's this kind of Spielbergian quality to this kid where he genuinely was just looking at this as an opportunity to go get this jet, and uncynically, he was like, there's no fine print here, I really think that they're giving this challenge to us. They're not - this challenge is being presented to us and I'm gonna go figure it out. And I kind of love that about him.

Matthew Sherwood 08:08
I mean, it's a typically American tale in that way. I mean, you know, I'm based here in the UK now, but I grew up there. I mean, yeah, firstly, you would look to see if there were any disclaimers, or any fine print. And when you see there isn't any or, you know, whammo, there's a business opportunity.

Andrew Renzi 08:27
Yeah, exactly, and, like - and the greatest thing is that it was a business opportunity, but if you really unpack it, it's like, what the hell is this guy going to do with a harrier jet, you know?! So, it's like, this incredible dream that he has, that kind of feels like where's it gonna go? And so, I just kind of love the spirit of it for that reason, where he was just sort of like, let me just take this big swing and whatever happens, happens.

Matthew Sherwood 08:48
And it's almost like the frontal lobe isn't yet fully developed, so, you know, it's kind of like, Yeah, I want the jet. He's not even thinking that I'll sell it on...

Andrew Renzi 08:56
I hope he hears that!

Matthew Sherwood 08:59
It's not like he's even - or - you know, I'm not sure mine's developed yet, but I mean, the thing is, it's, you know, it's not like he's even talking about selling it on to some rogue state or anything like that, he just, he's actually legitimately thinking I can give people rides in this plane, you know, or rent it out for movies or whatever.

Andrew Renzi 09:19
Yeah, and not to give too much away of the show, but it's like, there's a moment where you really recognize that this kid is not about the money; like, this kid is about - and, it's this crazy turning point where you recognize that he's not an ambulance chaser, this guy is actually after a dream.

Matthew Sherwood 09:36
I mean, this is an incredible story, and it's four episodes, and there's so many twists in the tale and, you know, I could say spoiler alerts, but we're not gonna go into the details because there's just so much there. But what - how did you - did you remember this story? Did you, I mean, you would have been a kid when this happened, but how did you come across this?

Andrew Renzi 10:01
Yeah, you know, I don't specifically remember the harrier jet or the commercial. I obviously remember the cola wars. I remember the flood of Pepsi commercials in my living room every Super Bowl, and I remember the sort of context of the world at that time. But I definitely wasn't fully aware 25 years later of the commercial itself, but I was sitting with my really close friend and my producer, Andrew Corkin, and we were talking about crazy stories, and he was like, Oh, I, like, read this article about this crazy story. And he kind of was, like, this would be a really cool fiction film, you know, this would be, like, a great fiction movie where, you know, and I read this article - I can't remember where the article was - it was kind of just this, like, do you remember when this kid tried to get - it was, like, one of those articles, you know, and I read it, and I was like, No, like, we [got to] find John Leonard. Like, let's go see what John Leonard is doing right now in the world and see if he wants to tell this story, see if there's any there-there. You know, it's a phrase that John uses a lot: is there any there-there, and I love saying it now in context of this story, because that's, like, his roadmap: is there any there-there? And so, the process was then, like, let me try to go find this guy. And I tracked him down to Denali, Alaska, to a state park...

Matthew Sherwood 11:20
Oh, cool.

Andrew Renzi 11:20
[...] Alaska, yeah. I called Denali State Park, you know, main hotline, and this woman answers, and I'm like, I'm trying to find John Leonard. And she's like, Oh, may I ask, you know, who's calling? I said, My name is Andrew Renzi. I'm a documentary filmmaker, and she goes, This must be about the Pepsi case [laughter]. And she wouldn't give me his number. She's like, I can't give you his number, but I can tell - I can pass along the message. And I sent about 30 emails to, like, random email addresses that I found online. I had no idea if it was him or not. And eventually he hit me back, and he was like, Listen, I love your persistence. I don't really want to tell this story. I've moved on, like, I have a whole life now. But then we've got talking. And he was like, You know what, actually, this would be really fun to unpack this. And especially when it comes to bringing Todd back into the fold. It was like, an adventure all over again.

Matthew Sherwood 12:16
But he was still - I mean, he - because he and Todd are, as you find out in the film, this other character, Todd Hoffman, they're, like, practically lifelong friends now, but he was still - they were still friends, even at that point, you know, is that right. It's just to bring him back in to relive this moment in the 90s.

Andrew Renzi 12:36
Yeah, I mean, they definitely like, I think that life, you know, John had some kids, and he was moving all around, and so, I think that life had probably gotten in the middle of how close they were at this time in the 90s. But, you know, they still had this incredible fondness for one another, and they were going to be lifelong friends forever. But the process of being able to retell this story really did feel like it brought them back together in a big way.

Matthew Sherwood 12:58
Now, that's all well and good. You find this kid who tried to buy a harrier jet from Pepsi, and you find his friend who is his financial backer, but the film's so much more than that. So, when you - you had to approach a lot of people, and what was the reaction because you've even got the - you've even got the people who produced the - the brainpower behind the Pepsi ad campaigns of the 90s to go on camera. I mean, what was that like? They must have been very cautious about wanting to relive this again.

Andrew Renzi 13:37
Oh, totally. I mean, you know, what was great about it, I think, is that, you know, obviously there was challenges. Michael Patti, specifically, was just, like, one of the most fun people I've ever tried to get on camera, because, you know, Michael Patti is the guy that came up with this commercial, and has for years and years and years sort of been looked at as though he made a mistake. It's, you know, he has been living with this idea. But, you know, he had information that, you know, he's been kind of sitting on for 25 years. So, getting him to participate was, like, very much like, he kind of felt like he was, like, the Deep Throat of this story where - you know, we had to, like [...] the ways and figure out how can we tell this story without having you feel - but, I think the good thing at the end of the day for all those guys, and all those guys were so cool, and they were so generous, was that the spirit of this project was really about celebrating, you know, adventure, and celebrating the spirit of creativity, and they're all on board with that. And I don't think that like, any step of the way, did they feel like they were stabbing Pepsi in the back or whatever. I mean, this was an isolated incident that was really kind of representative of the bigger world of the time, and they were all happy to talk about it. And I felt really lucky because of that.

Matthew Sherwood 14:51
Well, and they're creatives too, right. I mean, it's not like you got the legal team. I mean, at least Pepsi's legal team, I think they probably would have not wanted to have anything to do with you, but if any of those guys or women are still around, but, I mean - well, I don't think this is giving too much away, but, you know, there's some begrudging respect for what John was doing, I think it's...

Andrew Renzi 15:16
I think so. And it wasn't - I don't think that was necessarily apparent to them or to Michael specifically, until we sort of went through this process, which I thought was pretty cool. There was definitely a moment where he realized, Oh, you know what, like, this is the guy that I should be rooting for here. This is the guy that - this is the kid that was supposed to be in the commercial that I wrote. This is the underdog. This is the guy that's, like, you know, wants to show up at school with the sunglasses and, you know, have everyone look at him like he's the cool kid. And that's a great character.

Matthew Sherwood 15:45
All right. I think this takes us to a good point to give our listeners a very early break. But hold that thought I want to talk more about Michael Patti and those characters when we come back. So, we'll be right back with Andrew Renzi, the award-winning director and producer of Pepsi, Where's My Jet? Netflix docu-series, docu-series, I should say, which is dropping on November 17.

Factual America Midroll 16:12
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @alamopictures, to keep up-to-date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the program, our guests, and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.

Matthew Sherwood 16:30
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Andrew Renzi, the director and producer of Pepsi, Where's My Jet? It's a Netflix docu-series, which premiered on November 17. I highly recommend you check it out. It was a - it's four episodes, but my goodness that flew by. That was a lot of fun, I have to say, watching it. So, you were talking about - we're talking about the brains, the original creative genius behind all the Pepsi ad campaigns - I mean, one thing we should say, and we won't reveal anything, but he has been sitting on stuff for 25 years or so that he does reveal in terms of how this all happened. How did Pepsi go - because, I mean, just to set this up further, I mean, the 7,000 points - well, maybe not to give away too much, but it was - you could get it - you could get the plane for a lot less than it was worth is essentially...

Andrew Renzi 17:24
Yeah.

Matthew Sherwood 17:24
... what was gonna happen. And so, I mean, we won't go into - but it's fair enough to say he kind of has the answers into how this did happen.

Andrew Renzi 17:36
Yeah, I mean, there's a exciting moment, you know, in the show, where you kind of - you end up understanding how a bungle like this actually happens at the corporate level, you know, and it's because it really - at the end of the day, this really was a bungle. I mean, this was - it was a purposeful attempt to advertise something that ultimately would sell more Pepsi, you know; Todd has a great line in the show that I really kind of - really stand behind where it's like, you know, if you're little Timmy, and you're in the grocery store with your mom, and you're walking down the aisle, and you see the Pepsi, and you see the Coke, and you say, Mom, I want the Pepsi because I could win a harrier jet. Like, that's just a fact. That's why they do these ads. And I think that to go along with kind of making an ad like that, which is - there's inherently nothing wrong with that, they decided to make it not prohibitive, like the cost of this jet was not prohibitive. And that's really where the mistake is. No, that's where the bungle is.

Matthew Sherwood 18:34
Because, you know, there's a lot of adults in the room are older now, older people in the room saying, Well, of course it was meant as a joke; who took this serious and, you know - well, I won't go into it but there's things you can read online that go into more people saying similar things, but let's think about this. I mean, you know, we live in, you live in a country now, that - there's, you know, every ad, it's got a disclaimer, you know, the guy who speaks, or a woman who speaks really fast at the end telling you about all the side-effects of that medicine or whatever. And it's been this case for decades that you always have things at the bottom saying, you know, this isn't this or, you know, whatever; can't offer financial advice, or whatever, it's - they purpose - so, you know, they knew by not putting what they were doing when they didn't put that kind of stuff at the bottom of the screen, didn't they?

Andrew Renzi 18:38
Yeah, I mean, for sure. Because if you just look at the next iterations, where they add another zero to it, because they're like, Oh, now [...] people not want to get after this. And then they're like, that's probably not enough. Let's put just kidding, you know. So, like, there's definitely - I mean, regardless, in my opinion; regardless of whether you think, clearly this is a joke, you know, regardless of what - if you feel like John Leonard is either naive or an opportunist, or whatever you want to call him, regardless of that, it's like, you can't put stuff like that on television and have it not be taken seriously. Like if that ad were to run in 2022, there would be a million people on Twitter pooling their points to go get this jet and Pepsi would probably have to pay up 500,000 harrier jets because there would be so many people that would get this. So, like, I just love that [...], like in the early 90s, though, you kind of had to be a lone actor in this kind of thing. And that's what John was. And it's crazy that there was even a human being that would be able to get so far.

Matthew Sherwood 20:31
I mean, just one thing. I do remember at the very beginning, he did say, he - I mean, he didn't - not to go into this too much, because I want to talk about other things, but there were others who were thinking this. And that's how he kind of got the idea. But he's the only one that actually took that next step, right, so...

Andrew Renzi 20:50
Yeah, for sure. His peers were - that's another part...

Matthew Sherwood 20:54
The Pepsi generation was, like, Wow, I can buy a jet.

Andrew Renzi 20:57
Totally. And that's another part of the story that I kind of love is that you do have this kind of, like, difference between Madison Avenue or, you know, Ivory Tower, kind of, like, New York City; the court of law; like, you do have a big difference between that and, like, the people that were actually seen as commercial and very much uncynically thinking that this was an option; you know, it's like, everyone was pooling their points at work. Everyone was at the football practice, you know, drinking Pepsi until they were green in the face, and that was happening; that was really happening.

Matthew Sherwood 21:29
Well, this strikes me - I mean, I think this is a very obvious statement, but I'm good at that. This strikes me as a really fun film to make. You must have - ah, my goodness, it's like a - you know, you hopefully have many more of these, but what was - I mean, you got budget to go interview fashion models, and did you get to go to Antarctica yourself?

Andrew Renzi 21:54
Oh, yeah, absolutely. As [we] got to the top, it was one of the best experiences in my life, for sure.

Matthew Sherwood 22:01
Oh, my God. Yeah, because we're just, again, we'll try not to give away too much, but John Leonard and his friend Todd are big, avid mountain climbers. So, you - there are scenes there, where you are in Antarctica, that's absolutely amazing. Wow. So, and then - so, was it - because - so, when you guys - because there are serious elements to this, we've kind of touched on a few of things, and you've uncovered some, maybe things that were out there, but no, again, people had forgotten; things that Pepsi was involved with at the time. But, you know, who's - when you were putting this all together - I mean, because you could easily have just told the story, and that would have been okay, that'd been fun. But you've - it's kind of an homage, isn't it, to some films of the 90s, and it's got a whimsical side to it, which is actually - I mean, was that - I mean, obviously, that was purposeful. But what was the thinking when you were - when you guys were saying, How we going to tell this story?

Andrew Renzi 23:08
Yeah, it's a great question. I think that like, pretty much the easiest answer for me is that it's definitely in the spirit of me; you know, this is definitely like something that I gravitate to. I can - I'm a bit of a, you know, a manic personality in some ways, and I think that there's a lot of fun to be had, and I just feel like, we're in a moment right now with documentary specifically, where everything is being told. Every story is being told. Every, you know, there's just no shortage of content that's being put out there. And so, I think that as a filmmaker, the exciting challenge is how to do it differently, and how to capture a spirit that might not be something that you see every day from whether it be, like, the true crime template, or the - there just seems - there's kind of a template now for a lot of stuff, because so much stuff is getting made. And that's not to say that I'm like, disparaging because I love things that are being made, I love what's out there. But this story provided an opportunity to do it just a little differently. And to kind of have it be a little bit more alive in places and lean a little harder into, like, the cheekiness of that time period, and not take it too seriously. And just sort of say, like, from start to finish, we're going to go on a ride, and we're going to have a lot of fun with this thing. We're probably going to learn something along the way, but at the end of the day, like this thing is just a romp. And that was the whole spirit every step of the way.

Matthew Sherwood 24:27
And your subjects seem to be on board with it, too. I mean, it's great. I mean, there's some people that pop up that you don't expect to pop up. Let's put it that way. Initials M. A., but, you know.

Andrew Renzi 24:43
I mean, are we going there? Shall we just go there, or what?!

Matthew Sherwood 24:45
Yeah, we can go - yeah, we can go there. I mean, you know, people - well, we were supposed to always have a nice little surprise at the end of the podcast as well. So, you know, I mean, Michael Avenatti shows up. I mean, that was like, out of nowhere. That came out of left field, and it was like, I mean, did you - when you - so, I mean, it's like any - you're a documentarian, you're unpeeling the onion, and all that stuff. But did you have any idea that he was part of this? You know, when you started filming.

Andrew Renzi 25:11
Zero. Zero idea. And it's so funny because he - so, I had heard, and I'm trying to remember exactly where I heard. I think I might have heard it from the lawyer, Larry Shantz. If you remember Larry, in the show, he's kind of the lawyer that takes the case on, from Miami. He was like, Oh, you know, I think Michael Avenatti or somebody might have been involved. And I was like, Michael Avenatti? Like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. And so, I'm like, Okay, I gotta figure out - I'm like, is he in jail? Like, where is this guy? So, I literally - this is the all that happens is I go online, I type in Michael Avenatti. He's got a website. I go on his website, there's a Contact page. I go onto his Contact page. And it's like, you know, info at Michael Avenatti dot com. I send an email to that info at contact. He - a couple of days later, I get a phone call. And he's like, Hey, it's Michael Avenatti. I'm on house arrest in Venice Beach, which down the street from where I am in California. Come on over. This is crazy. Like, let's talk about it. So, then I go over there. And then pretty much for the next year and a half, I would say, I would just pop over there with like some - with a hoagie, and we'd sit down, and we'd talk, and we'd hang out. And just - and I think it was really fun. It was really fun for both of us. Because, you know, Michael was at a real precipice in his life at that time. It was a horrible moment for him. I mean, you know, regardless of whatever you believe about him or whatever, this is still a terrible moment for a human being, where he's about to go to jail. And, you know, he's reckoning with all these things, and this case represented really the first thing he ever did in his career, the first case he ever got involved in. He wasn't even a lawyer yet at that time. So, I think he kind of looked at it as like, let's - I can reminisce about something that really brings me fondness, you know, while this terrible thing is happening; and so, we just kind of hung out and had a great time for about a year and a half.

Matthew Sherwood 27:00
That's amazing. I mean, it doesn't - I had a quick look - I don't even think it shows up on his Wikipedia page. I mean, you know, it's like, for something that's got a big social media presence it - and he has a big presence, obviously - yeah, it's one of these things that, yeah, who knew? Well, we do now know that - but it's...

Andrew Renzi 27:19
Someone'll have to edit that Wikipedia page now.

Matthew Sherwood 27:21
Yeah. They'll see this, and then they'll - someone will get an idea, and they'll get on there, yeah - I think, yeah, no, that's - I mean, that's - I mean, absolutely amazing. That and others, I mean, I'm old enough to remember people like the judge that's involved. And, you know - so, it's just like this little - all these little bits of 90s, not just 90s, but all this history that's come - interweave, interwoven with this, which is, I mean, quite amazing. And then to do the - whose idea was to do the cola challenge of all your subjects?

Andrew Renzi 27:59
A great question. I don't remember the actual sort of, like, what - when that all came into fruition or came to be. I do - so, I did this thing - I made a series about the clothing brand von Dutch, this sort of crazy clothing brand from the early 2000s at Hulu, and I did this thing where I threw the von Dutch hat to everybody, and they caught the hat. And they kind of - some people were like, Oh, like, this thing is disgusting. Some people were like, This thing's so cool. And it's just sort of a way to, like, get into the character, you know, and get into a real interview moment without having to just sort of force anything. And so, it almost felt like an extension of that, to be honest with you. There was almost just sort of like an interview opportunity to loosen people up and have people have a good time, because there wasn't a single person that did the Pepsi Challenge that didn't get a laugh about it; you know, that didn't get a good laugh about what they did. And then getting into the interview was just so much easier because of that.

Matthew Sherwood 28:01
Yeah, watch it and you find out who wins. But is it really a blind taste test? I mean, or do - I mean, how much do you trust these people? Because I get the feeling some of these people were like, I know that's Coke, but I'm gonna pick Pepsi or vice versa, you know, not really...

Andrew Renzi 29:07
It was all honest, because, you know, there was plenty of people on the show that wanted to choose Pepsi, because they worked for them, and they would go, Pep-, and then there would be Coke. And then they're freaking out about it. So, I think that pretty much, you know, 25 years later, people have probably lost their palate a little bit.

Matthew Sherwood 29:11
Well, yeah, because we're not even - you're not even - I mean, you had to probably search a little bit to find original Coke and regular Pepsi, and not something that had a zero or whatever, with it. So - yeah, no, no, it's quite - and then to find out that this is - I mean, then this is, like, a huge legal case, it's taught in elite law schools. It's, you know, it's a, it's an amazing story. And it's great to like, uncover something that hasn't really been told before. Well, it's been told, or documented, in the 90s; but to relive it, is quite impressive.

Andrew Renzi 30:04
Yeah, I think that that was ultimately probably one of the bigger draws about the whole thing is that, you know, there's the difference for me between stories that are nostalgic, and, like, stories that are timeless, you know, and I think that there's a lot - there's a big draw right now to try to tell nostalgic stories where it's like, Oh, I remembered, but, like, that just doesn't have enough teeth for me; you know, it's not - there's not enough there. And the great thing about this one is that this thing is timeless. You know, it's like, I, one of my favorite parts was just talking to lawyers, and they would be - there wasn't a single one that wouldn't say, I studied this in law school; like, this is the biggest thing that you study in contract law. This is, like, the foundation of your education in contract law, and that's cool; you know, that's, like, you take this bizarre kind of wonky, wacky case from the 90s that quite literally irreparably changes advertising forever. Made it much more important, I think, than just sort of a silly story from the 90s, you know?

Matthew Sherwood 30:56
Yeah. I mean, you could - exactly, because, I mean, I have to say, we've even had some of those films on; I mean, there's, you know, 90s, nostalgia has been pretty hot. But I think that's a good way of putting it. There is a timelessness to your - to this series, which we, again, we don't want to give too much away, but it's more than just about a 20 year old going to try to buy a jet with his Pepsi points. And it's more than just reliving the 90s. And it's more than just, there's some lessons here, life lessons; is that what you want the legacy of this film to be?

Andrew Renzi 31:34
Yeah, I think so. And I think also, just like, you know, like we talked about earlier, just a celebration of spirit, and of boundless creativity, and of just kind of like, that sort of effort mentality; you know, like, I'm gonna go try this, I'm gonna go do what I can to try to make something happen here. And, you know, so I think that's really the spirit of the show. It's definitely, you know, harkens back to those kind of Spielberg films from the 80s, you know, where you just kind of feel like there's an adventure - there's an adventure in front of me. You get like Goonies type of thing i [...]. You know, you just, sort of, there's an adventure that's in front of me that I'm going to go try my best to make happen. And whatever happens along the way - you know, the cheesiest phrase you can come up with, that I really hold dear, and I really believe in is that this thing is perfectly representative of like, it's not the destination, it's the journey. And that's right. You know, and that's really what's here. And I love that about this.

Matthew Sherwood 32:28
And any - I mean - so, I have to say what usually, people may not realize this, but usually when we get films from Netflix, or other streamers, usually there's someone from a PR company or representative from Netflix online, but we don't have anyone here today. So, we can be a bit naughty, but no, seriously, we can - I mean...

Andrew Renzi 32:48
I don't know why they trust me so much.

Matthew Sherwood 32:49
I don't know, they obviously, you know, they feel they're in safe hands. Or you've been - or you've had - or you've had the indoctrination, you know, already; but, no, I mean, any difficulty selling this? Because a lot of time, I know, it's diff---. I mean, for all this stuff, you talk about a lot of content out there, and there's a lot of amazing content, but they're still, you know, everyone has struggles selling this - selling their projects to studios, and - but, you know, did this - any issues there? Did this - is this something Netflix just lapped right up soon as you - soon as you offered it to them?

Andrew Renzi 33:29
Yeah, I mean, very honestly, like, you know, the team that I had on this thing, you know, Boardwalk Pictures, and, you know, my producing partners, Nick and Corkin, I mean, we had a lot of confidence in the project, but you kind of never know; you know, you never know what's gonna happen. You never know what people are going to want or what the climate is like at that time and what buyers are looking for, but there was a little bit of just kind of excitement and urgency about selling this thing. And we got really lucky because there was multiple people that wanted it. And so, I think that kind of changes the dynamic of everything, when you kind of get multiple people excited about the possibility of working on this. And so, you know, looking back, I mean, it really was one of those sort of dream situations, to be honest with you, where it was really just like everybody - and again, I think it really relates back to just the spirit of the project, like everybody kind of got what this thing was going to be, and what the spirit of this was, and it was a pretty hard one to kind of, like, to just say, you know, I don't think this is going to be beneficial for our viewers, because it's just, it's a great ride, you know; it's like, there's not a lot there to really like, you know, kind of controversially pick apart; and so, I think once [they] realized that like, what we were selling them was actually what we were going to make, it was a pretty easy sale, and really lucky for that.

Matthew Sherwood 34:50
Because did you - I mean, was - had you envisaged, or envisioned, that this was a four part series, or some sort of series, and that's how it was going to - that's what you were pitching, and in the tone and everything.

Andrew Renzi 35:04
Yeah, the only thing that was like, that was definitely up in the air, that sort of was throughout the process was, you know, I really wanted to avoid that, like, strong, strong desire that everybody in my shoes have to stretch stories out as far as humanly possible for, like, longer than they need to be stretched out for. So, that was always a consideration. And so, I think like my solve for that, our solve as a team, was really, to make these a bit more bite sized, to make the episodes a little more palatable, so that you're not sitting there for an hour and being like, Why am I watching this thing for an hour, four times, you know, I want to tune back in. So, that was really the goal every step of the way was like, if it's 11pm on a Tuesday, and you turn on Episode One, like, how do we get them to go to episodes two, three, and four without feeling like they're getting exhausted by it? And so, that was really the only, like, I'd say, challenge that I think we landed in a pretty good place with.

Matthew Sherwood 36:00
Well, I would agree with it. I think you did. I do appreciate - I mean, that's what I love about the streamers, at least, it doesn't have to be 60 minutes. It doesn't have to be 90 minutes. It can be - I think one episode's, what 38; another one's, like - the rest are sort of low 40s or something like that. So, they are bite sized pieces. You can either - I did binge watch, but it's not really a binge. I mean, it's not like, it's not like binging some, you know, Breaking Bad or something, you know, it's...

Andrew Renzi 36:26
Yeah, you don't wake up, like, three weeks later and see what happened in life.

Matthew Sherwood 36:30
Exactly! Exactly. You can do it in an evening, or you can break it up or whatever. But each self-contained, each lovely little - each episode is, you know, very, very enjoyable. And I was about to say, I'm always tempted to say, call it Dude, Where's My Car? But I think we're - but it's Pepsi, Where's My Jet? I mean, was that - that's also homage, isn't it.

Andrew Renzi 36:56
It's not - you know, it's so funny. I hate to call that a homage, because I don't need to go too deep into this, but like, when we were coming up with titles for the show, there was definitely, you know, a really interesting moment for me, as a filmmaker, where I started to learn about, you know, what works on Netflix, quite frankly. And this was a conversation about, you know, how do we make this title pop as much for people, because it's, like, Netflix is only about click, it's about clickability. It's not about, you know, necessarily the poster or the billboard or the pre-sale or whatever it is, it's really all about when you're scrolling through your Netflix, like what's going to excite you. So, that was a bit of a learning curve for me. And I think that the Pepsi, Where's My Jet ultimately is like, what was decided is really the sort of big shiny, clickable object out there. You know, and it's funny, I kind of was like, I was arguing about it for a while, and I was kind of like, you know, well, doesn't that movie suck? Dude, Where's My Car?

Matthew Sherwood 37:53
Yeah, exactly! [laughter]

Andrew Renzi 37:55
I was like, Are we sure we really want to, like, you know...

Matthew Sherwood 37:58
Bring those... yeah.

Andrew Renzi 38:01
Can't we like, you know, call this, like, Citizen Pepsi for, like, Citizen Kane! But it's like, I didn't want to make a nod to that movie. And so, I think they're like - but what I learned, and there was a great moment where they had a show come out, I don't know if you remember the Manti Te'o episode for Untold on Netflix, and...

Matthew Sherwood 38:20
Right.

Andrew Renzi 38:20
That episode was called The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist. It's like, you know, traditionally terrible title, right, but it was very captivating to click on. You know, like, The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist, I want to do this. And so, I started to really understand where they were coming from, and we landed on that title as a result.

Matthew Sherwood 38:40
No, I've had some filmmakers - I've talked - I've asked filmmakers about the titles for Netflix films before, and it's been interesting, because one was saying that, like, yeah, you know, the guys come in - I mean, I don't know what the situation was with that one, except that they didn't really have a set title. So, they were suggesting things which he didn't like, so he was busy trying to come up with alternatives and, you know, that he thought they would bite on but then there was another group of filmmakers who had a set title, this definitely what it's gonna be called - and then all they had to have was the Netflix guy say, Well, if we title it that, this many people will see it; if we title it what we want to title it, this many people will see it, and they're like, We'll go with what you want.

Andrew Renzi 39:20
Yeah, you know, it's so funny because my collaboration with them was so incredible every step of the way. The creative collaboration, the team, they were so trusting, and we had this great thing. And then the title comes up and it was the only moment where I was like, Oh, wait, but like, I have an idea. But they really did do an incredible job of saying like, well, you know, if you go with your title and it doesn't do well on our platform, then like, you know, it might be because of the title, but if we go with our title, and it does badly, we'll take the fall for that one.

Matthew Sherwood 39:53
Fair enough.

Andrew Renzi 39:55
Fair enough, okay; like, let's, you know, but I don't feel like I compromised with it. I think it's fun. I actually - you know, I actually tested it on a bunch of my friends, and they all liked this title better than they liked my title, anyway; so, it was a - it was a real moment where I was like, you know, I shouldn't be precious about this because it is a title, and hopefully the show speaks for itself.

Matthew Sherwood 40:12
Well, I think, and I think it's appropriate, I think it's in this - I think it's - it says it all, right.

Andrew Renzi 40:18
Yeah. Exactly. That's what they wanted. That is what it was. The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist.

Matthew Sherwood 40:25
Well, I think we're actually - it's hard to believe, but I think we're starting to come to the end of our time together, Andrew, but so, what's next for you? I mean, I know you're probably living in the moment and the glory that is Pepsi, Where's My Jet? But any plans for you? I see that you do a lot of producing as well, and now more directing. And I think you've got a both a narrative and documentary background. So, what's next for you?

Andrew Renzi 40:53
Yeah, I mean, I'm working on a few things just sort of on developmental level. And I'm leaving for India in a couple of days, where I'm just going to, I will - my first job in film was, I was Wes Anderson's personal assistant, when I was, like, 19 years old, and he was working on Darjeeling Limited. And I've always wanted to take the train in India. So, I've always had this dream of going to India and doing the train. So, on Saturday, I'm going to India to take the train. And so, so I don't really have anything at the exact moment; I - you know, I've got things I'm working on, but I'm also kind of excited to like, you know, figure out the creative landscape for myself and make some exciting decisions, you know, with a clear head. So, the things I'm working on right now are obviously, a priority, but there's also a lot in the future that I can just figure out; so.

Matthew Sherwood 41:42
Thank goodness I asked the question. Since you raised it - I'm a huge Wes Anderson fan - what is it like working with Wes Anderson and or on a Wes Anderson film. That must be amazing.

Andrew Renzi 41:53
I mean - so, I - it's a funny story, because I was just this like, you know, punk little kid who was running around New York City trying to figure out what to do with my life, and I got an address that I thought was to his office, and it was actually to his apartment, and [...] my friend, the guy that I knew is like one of his assistants or something. And I got basically an internship because it was - they just needed extra hands. And so, I was there for a month or two interning, and then my friend ended up leaving, so it was just me left. And it was incredible, you know, because I was just in his apartment every day, you know, just kind of like, hanging out doing all the things he needed me to do. You know, there was some hilariously Wes Anderson type tasks where like, he'd have a set of three forks. And there was definitely a fourth that existed somewhere in the world that he didn't have, and I needed to go find! It's like, this incredible antique set of forks, that there's one missing, and it's like, go get it, you know, and so, it was a really, it was incredible. And I will say that I was not cut out for that job. I lasted, like, four months, I think. And then it was very clear that I was not the guy for the job. He needed somebody that was much more capable than me, but he opened up his world to me, and I've never been more inspired as, like, a young, wannabe filmmaker, to be around somebody like that. And truthfully, like, over the next ten years, I never - like, I always felt like, if there was - I could send him an email and just be like, Hey, like, I just made something and he would always write back and he'd always be like, congratulations. And so, there was, you know, despite probably having zero to no impact on that guy's life personally, like, he had a huge impact on me. So, I've always been grateful.

Matthew Sherwood 43:38
So, what do you - I mean, any insights into his creative process? Because that's - I mean, it's a - I guess for some people might even be the - I don't know what it says about myself, I think for others it looks like the mind of a madman but I just love the way his mind works. But what's his day like?

Andrew Renzi 43:56
Immersive, you know, and I will say that I really developed a respect for that where it's like, I mean, immersive all - he was in pre-production for Darjeeling, and it was immersive all the way down to the like, you know, making a mango Lassi in the morning, you know what I mean? Like, it was very much like, let me get into this culture. There was books stacked everywhere, and, you know, obviously rewrites probably every day going on. And, you know, I obviously was not like, I would - you know, there was one, actually, one thing that I did take away that was part of the creative process that I always really loved, was, you know, he would just have these mixtapes from his music supervisors, kind of the famous music supervisor, Randall Poster, I think his name is; so, he'd have these mixtapes, and they would just sit in the living room and they'd have a bottle of Campari, and they would listen to this music, and they would essentially develop the soundscape, the musical soundscape, just through this really kind of casual, wonderful process that I was like, Man, what a dream, you know, to know that you can have any song that you want in the world to be able to potentially pick from. So, yeah, it was inspiring. I mean, he had a Criterion Collection that was every movie, every Criterion Collection, that was ever created, he had in a bookshelf.

Matthew Sherwood 45:04
Oh, wow. Wow. It's amazing. No, those must be - those would be some fucking amazing mixtapes, I tell you, I, you know, you just think about the soundtracks that his films have. I can only imagine what those mixtapes are like.

Andrew Renzi 45:18
Yeah. If they put those on Spotify, man, those would blow up.

Matthew Sherwood 45:23
That's a business idea. If they - not that he needs to do that, or even care. Hey, well, thank you. I really appreciate that. And it's, you know, Andrew, it's been great having you on the podcast. I can't believe this is your first podcast. So, we're happy to help you, to break you in as you get - I'm sure you're gonna have many more in your future, especially this week. So, a big thank you to Andrew Renzi, the director and producer of Pepsi, Where's My Jet? The Netflix docu-series, which premiered on November 17. Love to have you on again, Andrew, when you drop your next project. So, thanks again. Good luck with everything.

Andrew Renzi 46:05
Thank you so much for your time and your generosity about the show...

Matthew Sherwood 46:09
No, no...

Andrew Renzi 46:10
... it's a lot of fun, so.

Matthew Sherwood 46:11
Well, it was a lot of fun watching. That's what I'll say; so, thank you again and take care.

Andrew Renzi 46:19
Take care. Bye bye.

Matthew Sherwood 46:21
I also would like to thank those who help make this podcast possible. A big shout out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio in York, England. Big thanks to Amy Ord, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show, and that everything otherwise runs smoothly. Finally, a big thanks to our listeners. Many of you have been with us for four incredible seasons. Please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. Whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. Please also remember to like us and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.

Factual America Outro 47:02
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures, specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk

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Pepsi, Where’s My Jet?

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Pepsi, Where’s My Jet?

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