Reimagine Wildfire: An Elemental Threat That We Can Control
In 2018, the Californian town of Paradise was destroyed by a wildfire. How did it happen? Could anything have been done to limit or even stop the inferno?
Global warming has made the risk of wildfires greater than ever before, and there are people who believe that we are already doing all that we can to stop them. As Trip Jennings tells Matthew Sherwood, however, he was tired of hearing this message. And so, he spent five years researching wildfires. The result is Elemental, a documentary that reveals there is more that we can do, and in some cases, easily, as well.
Trip’s research has taken him from learning to be a firefighter to special hangers where scientists burn replicas of homes in order to observe the fire’s behaviour. He has explored how America’s indigenous peoples have responded to fires, and met fire survivors, as well as many experts who share their knowledge in the film.
It would be easy for Elemental to be a pessimistic film, full of anger about what has happened and is happening, but that is not Trip’s way. He tells Matthew that we need to forgive ourselves and evolve our way of thinking. As part of that, he outlines specific ways in which we can make our homes, and our lives, safer. He also stands up for forests. They may be lethal when set alight, but they also have a critical role to play in the life of planet earth and Mankind.
“... it's things like boring, non-sexy details that we should think of as doing important climate adaptation work... we shouldn't be thinking about, oh it's just drudgery... we should be thinking about these things as how we adapt as a society to climate change, which is the challenge of all of the generations that are present right now on Earth” – Trip Jennings
Time Stamps
02:06 – Matthew Sherwood introduces this episode’s guest, Trip Jennings, and his film, Elemental
06:45 – Trip explains what Elemental is about
08:22 – Discussing Trip’s past experience investigating wildfires and the making of Elemental
12:13 – How we constantly make mistakes about how to fight wildfires and how Trip tried to make Elemental as accurate as possible
20:20 – What Trip learnt in making Elemental
23:53 – Firefighters. The ‘amazing army’ that keeps us safe
27:02 – Trip discusses trail blazing scientist Jack Cohen
30:56 – Humanity’s strange (and dangerous) fascination with fire
31:33 – The hanger where houses are built and burnt down on purpose
32:46 – Filming before and during the pandemic
33:28 – Some of the fires that Trip caught on film while making Elemental
34:34 – Trip discusses becoming a certified firefighter
37:06 – Ways in which we can protect our homes from wildfires
41:57 – The need for societal change in order to combat global warming
43:04 – Seeing signs of a change in attitude towards wildfires
45:12 – Trip on David Oyelowo, the narrator of Elemental
47:39 – Trip’s next project: climate reporting for PBS
Resources:
Elemental: Reimagine Wildfire
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Trip Jennings:
More from Factual America:
The Letter
All That Breathes
Deep in the Heart of Texas Wildlife
The Best Documentary Streaming Services 2023
11 Important Documentaries About Native Americans
19 New Documentaries Streaming in May 2023
13 Best Documentaries About The Wild WestT
Documentaries Streaming in June 2023
New Documentaries Streaming In July 2023
Best Documentaries about Climate Change: Top Films for Environmental Awareness
6 Best Nature Documentary Series to Binge Watch
Best Documentaries About Africa: Unveiling the Continent's Untold Stories
Stamping Out Racist Lies: America’s Truth
Transcript for Factual America Episode 132: Reimagine Wildfire: An Elemental Threat That We Can Control
Matthew Sherwood 00:00 (02:06)
This is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. Elemental takes viewers on a journey to better understand fire, the kind of fire that engulfs entire towns and plunges communities into a version of hell, previously unimaginable. But it doesn't have to be this way. That's what Trip Jennings found out when he made this film. Join us as we talk with Trip, director and writer of Elemental, about his journey investigating wildfires, documenting harrowing escapes, and finding simple solutions to big problems. The secret is in the little things. Stay tuned. Trip Jennings, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Trip Jennings 00:47
Oh, they're fine. I have Covid. And it was my first time. So, I'm in the club now, and I'm happy to have mostly gotten through it. But I'm on Day 10, and Day 9 was my worst. So, it was actually - it was kind of rough. But I'm really happy to be here. I feel like this means I'm done with it.
Matthew Sherwood 01:08
Well, we're happy to help you get through to the other end of the Covid saga. I mean, you and I were actually sharing beforehand, I just had Covid for the first time sort of a few weeks ago. So, did you - now you are more likely to be - well, obviously you're more likely to be the last person in the world to get Covid but do you feel like that? Is that - how are your friends and family responding, you know, is it...
Trip Jennings 01:36
They're all sympathetically, somehow.
Matthew Sherwood 01:38
Okay.
Trip Jennings 01:38
But, it's because my whole family got Covid at the same time. So, I think everyone was just like, Oh, you have a child? Oh, my God. It's so awful.
Matthew Sherwood 01:50
Yeah - small child? Because I wouldn't want to - Yeah, I mean...
Trip Jennings 01:53
Two.
Matthew Sherwood 01:54
... at least - Oh, God. Yeah, okay. So, that's worse than, like, being hungover and trying to look after - not that I've ever done that necessarily, but...
Trip Jennings 02:02
... of course not.
Matthew Sherwood 02:02
... yeah, of course not, of course not. Never would do something like that. But yeah, at least mine are older. So, I could just kind of lie in bed all day for a few days.
Trip Jennings 02:11
Yeah, right. Now you've got to, like - I mean, even if you want to use the screen babysitter, it only works for so long. And then it gives them bad dreams at night; scary dreams from watching a movie. We watched Miyazaki, and he loved it.
Matthew Sherwood 02:26
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 02:27
But he had bad dreams that night. So, yeah, it kind of backfires. No, it's rough...
Matthew Sherwood 02:33
I thought you were gonna say...
Trip Jennings 02:35
I don't know how people did it in the beginning.
Matthew Sherwood 02:37
Exactly. Because the thing is what I had to keep telling myself is - what I remember thinking three years ago, this was far better than what, you know, let's face it, and many people did go - I mean, it was a horrible for, obviously, for a lot of people, and there's a lot of people died from it, but, you know, you're having - I don't know if you're vaccinated or not, but, you know, obviously they've done the job, and it's - yeah, wasn't great, and it gave us something to complain about. And you're still able to complain about it now. And I can tell you even yesterday, something happened that made me think is this still Covid hanging around for a little bit. But not to make you feel bad, but, yeah, all things considered, it could have been a lot worse.
Trip Jennings 03:21
Oh, yes.
Matthew Sherwood 03:22
So, we should be...
Trip Jennings 03:22
... and I'm so glad. I mean, it, you know, wasn't that bad for our family. It wasn't fun. But I'm so grateful that people are back in theatres, film festivals have people at them again. And I think 2023, people are far more comfortable than even 2022. At least we've been seeing that, so.
Matthew Sherwood 03:47
Yeah. No, that's great. And that brings us back to why we're here. We want to talk about your film that's - well, technically released last year, but is having a theatrical release now. We're talking about Elemental. You can also check it out. Check out the website elementalfilm.com. And you say it's going to be streaming is it sometime in June?
Trip Jennings 04:11
June 13. Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 04:12
Okay. And where can people find it?
Trip Jennings 04:15
It'll be on sort of all the platforms, right. Yeah, all the usual; so, Apple and Amazon, and the list will go on - your favourite spots.
Matthew Sherwood 04:25
Okay. Well, why don't you tell our listeners, what is Elemental all about?
Trip Jennings 04:35 (06:45)
Wow, it's a great question. So, I think of Elemental as the way that we will all be talking about wildfire in five years, right. Wildfire, as the world warms, we have longer dry spells, and we have more of this sort of hydro-whiplash, right; so, it rains a bunch in the winter and then it gets way drier than normal, and it's just leading to more acres burned. And far more homes and structures burned, right. And I think that we're just running up against a wall where we can't continue doing the same thing that we're doing. We can't continue seeing entire communities burned down. And I think I was tired of that. I was tired of sort of hearing that we were doing everything we could, and we should do more of the thing that's not working. And I spent five years researching it. And so, Elemental takes us on my journey. And I really do believe this is the direction that the wildfire conversation is going. And it is hopeful. It's unlike most climate oriented films that - you know, you end kind of just bummed out. There are solutions. This is something that we can actually solve, I believe, in relatively short order. But we have to choose to do it.
Matthew Sherwood 06:04 (08:22)
I mean, I think you make a very good point. I mean, and I'm just curious, what did - I mean, you said five years in the making. What did you know about forest fires going into the film? Because you pack in a lot in just over 80 minutes in this film, I will say. And that's meant as a compliment.
Trip Jennings 06:22
Thank you. I'm glad. So, I did create a student film about wildfire, in, you know, I think it was 2006, maybe.
Matthew Sherwood 06:37
Okay.
Trip Jennings 06:38
And so, that was a long time ago, obviously, and I was a student and it wasn't exhaustive in any way. But I knew, I think, like, just enough about wildfire that I remembered and, you know, that had carried over, I guess, to the point that when a fire ignited about 40 miles east of Portland, an east wind was blowing it towards Portland, and it was kind of the first time in recent generations that ashes have been falling on homes and cars in Portland. We had to clean our windows and windshields. And people were freaking out, especially because this fire was burning in a place that's just so beloved by Portlanders, the Columbia River Gorge. It's a beautiful old growth forest. And it's where we love to go hiking and recreate. It's, like, one of the reasons that people live in Portland. And I just began to realise that the discourse, the sort of, like, public outcries, and the way that politicians and policymakers were talking about fire was pretty far from what I believed was the best available science. And so, I started to get into it. I got the first temporary - the first exclusion permission to go into the closed airspace over the fire and fly over it because they said 40,000 acres have burned and I was like, You know, I bet it doesn't look like that. I bet way fewer acres actually burn hot, you know, and so shot the front cover of the local paper, made a little film about it. And it really, you know, got a lot people talking and thinking and I thought, Okay, I think we need to go deeper into this. And at that point, I really, actually, I thought it was gonna make a very different film. I thought it was gonna make a extremely different film than what we turned out making on the first shoot, which was about, you know, prescribed fire. And, you know, I thought we're gonna make a film about the importance of fire on a landscape, and how we need to put more of it on the ground.
Matthew Sherwood 08:50
Right.
Trip Jennings 08:51
And that is part of the film. However, on that shoot, one of the scientists said to me, Well, prescribed fire is good, you know, it's an ecological benefit, but what you do more than 100 feet from a structure doesn't really have very much to do with whether or not it burns in a fire. And I was like, nothing, like, all of the prescribed - all of the thinning, everything that we're doing. And I was like, That guy's for sure wrong. And I spent basically five years...
Matthew Sherwood 09:26
Right.
Trip Jennings 09:26
Proving him right...
Matthew Sherwood 09:27
Yes, yeah.
Trip Jennings 09:28
... learning why I was wrong. And so, that's the process of the film. And that's what you see.
Matthew Sherwood 09:35 (12:13)
Well, that's a very interesting journey, because it certainly - because I was going to ask you, I mean, did you have any idea what you were going to discover. I mean, because - when I said you [put] a lot in there, I mean, it's investigative journalism. It's an element of nature docs, if you will. There's, you know, there's a call to action, I would say, and it's an environmental piece, obviously, which is obviously the backdrop to climate change, everything's behind this. But, I mean, what struck me is it seems to me, we just got - we've as a society keep getting things wrong. I mean, we just seem to be wrong about everything. About fires, about how to fight them, about forests, about how to build our houses, how to - where to build our houses. I mean, is that a - that's a pretty fair summation, would you say?
Trip Jennings 10:29
Well, I think that it's very true when we look at, you know, especially how we adapt to climate change. And how we - you know - but it makes sense to me, too, right; like, there's that great quote, that's, you can't use the same thinking to get yourself out of a problem, that you used to create the problem, right...
Matthew Sherwood 10:50
Right, right.
Trip Jennings 10:52
And problems, I think, are created often by stories, by narratives. We do something that we believe will work well. And we try it out, and we invest in this narrative. And it's difficult to change that narrative. And so, we continue doing it too long. And it causes problems. And we have to adapt and change, right. And we're not native, most of us, the overwhelming majority of us are not native to the places that we live, right. And so, what we did in the film is we combined, and I think this isn't sort of an unusual thing about a film like this, but we combined what I believe is the best available science, with knowledge from people who have never been displaced, never been extirpated from their homeland: the Yurok people, Native Americans in northern California. And it is unusual, it's very rare; like, most tribes, through colonisation have been displaced and have been forced to leave their land. And so, we do get this pretty magical, special window. And in northern California, it was one of the last places to be colonised. And in fact, people kind of, at one point were, like, you know, you will just stay there. Not that there wasn't massive oppression, and we cover that a bit in the film, but the fact is that we have a lot to learn from people who have, since time immemorial, you know, since the last ice age, you know, could have been there. And so, combining that knowledge of that place that's so deep with, you know, the best available science, I think, does - it gives us a path forward.
Matthew Sherwood 12:42
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, there's this - I mean, as you say, most of us, I'm from the States originally, I mean, we're not, you know, we don't have a direct contact to, you know, the people who've lived there all along, you know, direct connection, but it's almost like, as a society, as a culture, we have this sort of societal amnesia, or - and there were all these things that - I mean, it kind of makes sense, too, for me; I mean, it personally, it's just that we've kind of lost touch as a culture and society with nature, and how to interact with it. And...
Trip Jennings 13:20
Absolutely.
Matthew Sherwood 13:21
... so things that people - and then are, too - I mean, back to this point, you were also making, I mean, it's also sort of that what the prevailing narrative is, it's also something starts with an assumption, and people don't question that assumption or didn't for a while, and now they are questioning those assumptions, and your film does, and realise that, you know, you start with the wrong assumption, you're gonna go in the wrong - you're definitely gonna go in the wrong direction.
Trip Jennings 13:49
Yeah, you know, and I think that we - I think that's for sure true. And that's part of it. I also think that we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much about it. Because we created a society that worked in a climate and a weather pattern that we got used to for generations. And then what we did changed it, but the underlying fact is that the weather and the climate changed, right. Like, I've also reported on dams, and, you know, also flooding, drought. And the thing that keeps coming up is that we designed systems and infrastructure for a climate that we don't live in anymore, right. So, climates shift on their own, we also shift the climate, obviously. And so, we shouldn't be - I mean, yeah, we shouldn't be too upset with ourselves, in some ways; like, we should have some grace and some forgiveness for ourselves because, you know, we designed our communities, we pushed out into the wild lands, and we said, boy, is it nice to live amongst nature, and we built - and that's been the fastest growing sort of sector of homes over the last couple of decades, for obvious and important reasons, right. We like being among the trees and importantly grasslands and shrublands as well, and they weren't burning...
Matthew Sherwood 15:20
Right.
Trip Jennings 15:20
... in the 60s and 70s, and even into the 80s, it was kind of fine, like firefighting worked. And we make that point in the film. But now it doesn't. The climate has changed, the amount of potential ignition sources have changed. And we're in a predicament. And so, we can't use the same tools to protect ourselves that we could back then. And so, we have to evolve. We have to change. Because we - I mean, honestly, we don't have choice.
Matthew Sherwood 15:52
I think that's a - I want to give our listeners a very quick, early break. And we'll be right back with Trip Jennings, the director and writer of Elemental.
Factual America Midroll 16:01
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @alamopictures to keep up-to-date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the programme, our guests, and the team behind the production. Now back to the Factual America.
Matthew Sherwood 16:21 (20:20)
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Tripp Jennings, the director and writer of Elemental. We were talking about how things - not beating ourselves up, and I think that's a very good point, and I think what's also a good, what it also illustrates is how - and I think as you've mentioned already - is this a film that's - you know, the problem with a lot of - some environmental films is that they're all doom and gloom. And I know, we've had some people on to talk about this, previously. And it in some ways, it causes some of us, or many of us, to just sort of freeze in our tracks and say, well, what can we do about things, and yet, yours is very positive, very uplifting. I mean, I was also reminded of a professor I had who said, there's no beach erosion problem, it's just a problem because humans want to live near the beach, which is true, but, you know, you're not telling us off for building houses and beautiful places. And, you know, it's just - and as you've pointed out, and I'm older than you and I have kind of been caught off guard, too, I don't remember there being that many forest fires, and there being lots of problems. And then I moved away about 20 years ago, and then lo and behold, as you document, and certainly start off the film, it's like every year it gets worse and worse, and the worst fires are the - you know, all the worst events are all in the last five to ten years. And so, we are in a different world. And so, I mean, maybe the best way - what have you, I guess, how do we break this down and not give away too much because people should see the film. But, I mean, what have you, in doing this journey, what's the main thing I guess you've discovered about forest fires, that you think...
Trip Jennings 18:14
Ah, well, here's my favourite quote, from the scientist, that ended up in the narration of the film, is that forest fires aren't really the problem. Because only 20% of homes that burn in California are in forests...
Matthew Sherwood 18:36
Right.
Trip Jennings 18:36
... so, think about that. We call them forest fires, right, but grass fires, chaparral...
Matthew Sherwood 18:43
Wildfires.
Trip Jennings 18:43
Wildfires. So, I mean, I think wildfires is a great way to say it. But when I say make a film about wildfire, people are like, Oh, I think they're like, is that a type of campfire. I, you know, I don't even know. And then I'm like, forest fires, and they're like, oh, yeah, forest fires, and I kind of like, have to scratch my head because I'm like, It's 80% of them, you know, 80%. Like, we could pave every forest in the United States. We could cut down every tree...
Matthew Sherwood 19:13
Right.
Trip Jennings 19:13
And we'd only solve 20% of the problem. And, of course, we shouldn't do that because forests, on the other hand, are one of our most important allies in this. They're one of our most important tools. And so, I think that in blaming forests, which we kind of inadvertently do when we call them forest fires, we're blaming this potential tool, this important resource to, if we manage them well, to store carbon, to cool the climate. And, you know, I think one of the most important things, without giving away too much, you know, is that, yeah, when we define this as a problem that's in the forest, or even in the back country, as opposed to a problem of the things that we want to stop burning. I mean, that's the problem, and that's where we have to reimagine, right. And I wish I could say it was the, like, sexy, exciting things, we have this desperate desire to, like, fight problems. And also, I think, to think there's 200 foot flames, and that's what we have to fortify our homes with. But when we focus from the home out, it turns out, we can live in pretty normal houses, as long as we focus on the little things. And that's actually true - you know, I also produced a show for PBS, about extreme weather, climate, how it's changing, how we can prepare, right; so, looking at like, almost like Elemental, but for multiple threats. And the thing that I realised across the board, is that there are big things we need to do in this climate adaptation, which is, of course, decrease carbon pollution, but with the way that we design and build and protect our homes and our communities, it's kind of these details. And that's what we get wrong. I think you said earlier, you know, we kind of get all of it wrong, we do the opposite thing. And I think we have this emotional response to the big problem. And we want to stop the big problem, the 200 foot flames that are far away from our homes. But...
Matthew Sherwood 21:33
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 21:33
... it's the little things on our homes, that keep them from going away.
Matthew Sherwood 21:38 (23:53)
Well, before we even start talking about the little things in the homes - but I mean, the thing that, as you also point out, billions of dollars are spent on firefighting, and, you know, these amazing armies, basically, of firefighters that we have throughout the west of the United States and certainly in California. But yet, I think wasn't there another stat; something to the effect that it's only 2% of the fires that actually have - you know, so you were talking about this 80-20 split, well, then...
Trip Jennings 22:07
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 22:07
... there's also this 98-2 split, in that most of the forest fires don't have any sort of, you know - I wouldn't say that they don't have a threat, but they're not - really, we don't need to be worrying about that 98%, yeah.
Trip Jennings 22:22
Well, I mean, firefighters are extremely effective. They're extremely good at what they do, right. We put, as you say, we put out 98% of fires at initial attack, right. They don't get bigger. Some of them get the size of a dinner plate, and some of them get a, you know, an acre, ten acres. And they don't burn a home down. And they don't make the news. Thank goodness, right. And that's almost 98% of fires, which is great news, except for the fact that those 2% that do escape are getting bigger, and they're causing more destruction. And, you know, as Jack Cohen, he's one of the stars of the film, points out...
Matthew Sherwood 23:06
Right.
Trip Jennings 23:07
... when we try to stop the problem by just doing more firefighting, we are trying to stop the tails, the extreme end, the most difficult fires, to change the outcome from just firefighting, and it's not working, you know, it's getting worse, it's getting worse and worse. And so, so just to be clear, I don't, you know, there's not a world in which we have success, and we have less firefighting, or we start taking funds away from firefighters.
Matthew Sherwood 23:41
Right, right.
Trip Jennings 23:43
They're doing important, heroic work.
Matthew Sherwood 23:45
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 23:48
But the other stat, the other sort of 80-20, like, stat is that the overwhelming majority of money that we spend, that's not on firefighting, that's on preparing for fire, preparing our homes and communities for fire, something like 96, 97, 98% of that goes to vegetation management. And I think that's what we can see, it's not working.
Matthew Sherwood 24:15
Right.
Trip Jennings 24:16
Not helping the insurance industry. And all sorts of scientists are pointing to what we spend that 2% on is homes and communities. And that's what really makes the difference.
Matthew Sherwood 24:30
And so, back to those little things that you were saying that are important to - so, was it Jack Cohen, who was at the beginning that you said that he made that comment and you're like, you don't necessarily...
Trip Jennings 24:41
No, it wasn't Jack.
Matthew Sherwood 24:42
No, it wasn't?
Trip Jennings 24:42 (27:02)
No. You know, I actually don't remember who it was. I wish I did. But I met Jack - so, Jack is amazing. Jack spent his whole career doing this work and doing the science to help us understand the ideas of defensible space. He basically created, he did the experiments that created the idea of defensible space. He helped understand the modern, you know, come up with the modern understanding of how fire moves and burns homes down, which is by throwing embers, most of it, and started to look at how we actually - can we just change little things in a house that changes its ignitability? It turns out the answer was yes. But he spent his entire career working for the Forest Service, and a lot of it with his results and findings being largely ignored. And so, he was pretty reluctant to kind of come out of his shell and hang out with me. He was pretty sceptical at first. And he was pretty guarded. And I can appreciate all those reasons. So, it took three years, and a bunch of trips to Missoula, where he lives, and I'm really proud to say that now - I mean, he calls it 'our film'. He's like, you know, he's really into it. And he's really been pushing it hard. And, you know, when there's been any sort of questioning and push back on the film, you know, he's like, no, 30 years of research, you know, are behind this film, this is the real deal. And I'm - so I'm very, I'm flattered by that - that's one of my, I think, successes.
Matthew Sherwood 26:38
Well, and you've got some - I mean, I gather he's retired from the Forest Service, but he's - you've got some great footage there from his time there. I mean, he was - I mean, it's incredible stuff that he's doing, you know, whole stands for, you know, wooded land that he's basically setting on fire with a flame thrower, and testing, you know, these things, you know, and probably he was the only one thinking these, you know, even thinking these things.
Trip Jennings 27:05
And isn't that just like the documentarian dream, right. Where you have a sort of cult hero of, like, firefighters and fire scientists, who did this research that was sort of suppressed, or at least not highlighted, and you go into some vault, in a lab in Missoula, and you unearth, you know, the like, really, sadly, I don't know, like, early digital mini - tapes, or whatever, and you're like, ah, bring these to light, finally, right...
Matthew Sherwood 27:36
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 27:38
... and not only that, it's not just about - it's not just footage that's like, some boring sciency stuff. He's literally burning entire blocks of forest with gallons of jelly gasoline, delivered from a flame thrower in the back of a Forest Service truck that looks like its driving, like, 30 miles an hour on these - yeah, it's pretty cool.
Matthew Sherwood 27:59
And you've even got guys, like, running, like - it looks like their lives are in danger, you know.
Trip Jennings 28:05
I mean, that footage - because, right, because they were like putting the cameras in these temperature controlled cases, and then putting them in the fire. And I mean, maybe you could do those experiments, maybe, but I don't think so. I mean, you know, we're now seeing huge forest fires in the locations where they did those tests. I don't know if you could do that anymore, today. And thank goodness, we have that research.
Matthew Sherwood 28:31
Yeah. I mean, I don't want to make light of this, but there's this part of me, it's even just like, you kind of want to channel my inner Beavis and Butthead and just go 'Fire!', you know, kind of thing, because it's that kind of stuff that's happening, you know, and I...
Trip Jennings 28:45 (30:56)
Humans are so drawn to fire, even when it's really destructive, right. Like, fire is the reason that our brains are the size that they are. If it wasn't for fire, we would never have evolved to be the creatures that we are. And then, you know, continuing to use fire has allowed us - I mean, everything in our society, right, like, combustion engine is everything. So, yeah, we are moths drawn to a fire and we are powerless against it. And I don't think that we should feel bad even when we're looking at destruction. It's just innate.
Matthew Sherwood 29:23 (31:33)
And so, I mean, the other incredible stuff you've got is this institute that does all the, you know, it's this massive, like...
Trip Jennings 29:33
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 29:33
... aircraft - a hanger...
Trip Jennings 29:35
It's huge.
Matthew Sherwood 29:36
... massive thing. What does he have? 150 fans or something?
Trip Jennings 29:42
It's a lot of fans!
Matthew Sherwood 29:45
I mean, they actually do control burnings of houses within this structure. I mean, this is incredible.
Trip Jennings 29:52
Yeah, they can create hurricane force winds. Basically, the whole place exists to build and destroy homes, and video it from all different angles. Inside, outside, slo-mo to learn what the weak points are. And they do that, and so we went, and we watched them burn a bunch of houses down, and it was pretty fascinating. And we got to be, you know, right there. And this is part of something that Jack Cohen helped build and develop.
Matthew Sherwood 30:22 (32:46)
Yeah. And, well, and it proves, I mean, not that you had to prove or anything, but it further proves his point, right. And, then you have real life proof. And I guess that kind of - it's five years in the works, so you were filming well ahead of when Covid hit, right.
Trip Jennings 30:40
Yeah, thank goodness.
Matthew Sherwood 30:41
Yeah. But then at the same time, you've - I mean, you can tell that you worked safely, I'm sure, and I know, because there are scenes where you've got people with, like, wearing face masks and things. So, you did - obviously had continued some filming over, during Covid, but, you know, so you started, what, 2017, 2018?
Trip Jennings 31:03
2018, yeah. I think we - I mean, we - yeah, 2017, I guess, but we didn't use any of the footage from 2017 because it just wasn't good, but, yeah, in earnest in like spring of 2018.
Matthew Sherwood 31:17 (33:28)
And I guess doing the work and the research, you probably weren't surprised, but at the same time, over this time period, you capture - I mean, you have the Labour Day fires in Oregon that were in 2020. I mean, the Boulder fire. I mean, I even have a friend who's lost a house in the Boulder fires in '21. I mean, you were already filming areas that ended up burning down, like some of the research that, I forget, one the scientists was doing. I mean, you had no idea you - do you have any idea you're gonna be able to capture all this going in?
Trip Jennings 31:51
I, you know, I don't think that you can do, like, natural history, wildlife, you know, natural phenomenons, like fires, I don't think you can kind of do that kind of film work without real, being very overly optimistic about what you can capture. And so, I'm just always, I don't know, I guess I'm sort of constantly disappointing myself, because I'm like, Oh, we can get everything, you know...
Matthew Sherwood 32:20
Right.
Trip Jennings 32:20 (34:34)
But without thinking that way, I don't think you get it. So, yeah; so, I actually took the classes and I got firefighter certification. I got all my, like, PPE for being in fires and found myself very deep in, you know, in wildfires in California. And, yeah, we took - we spent years filming some of the time lapses, filming the wildlife, some of the owl shots, you know, endangered species of owls that...
Matthew Sherwood 32:57
Right.
Trip Jennings 32:57
... took - I mean, you know, almost two years to fully get some of those scenes just because we found the owls before they had mated, you know, and [...] just a single dude, and then eventually were able to film his chicks flying for the first time.
Matthew Sherwood 33:17
Wow, and then that's the thing. I mean, you were, again, many films would have just maybe just focused on the fire, but you've got, or focused on the wildlife side of things, but you've got - you combine an incredible amount of different aspects of this issue into the film, and it's in some incredible footage, as you've noted - I mean, are you - if a fire broke out near your home now, you are licenced to go in there and trained to fight the fire if had to be?
Trip Jennings 33:55
Yeah, I mean, I don't think that, yeah, I don't know - thankfully, firefighting is very well organised. So, I don't think that they're calling on just anybody. And, you don't want to, you know, I hope that at some point, we all prepare homes and communities and we all are helping fight fires, because we've reduced our risk, but boy, we're not there, so - so, I just learned enough to - well, I held a driptorch with the Yurok. I got to light a forest on fire, which was awesome, you know...
Matthew Sherwood 34:33
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 34:34
So, yeah, I got - I just like to get my hands in it...
Matthew Sherwood 34:39
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 34:39
... you know.
Matthew Sherwood 34:39 (37:06)
And so, I mean, what is - I mean, people need to watch the film and they'll have an opportunity either in a theatre or cinema or, you know, streaming in June. But, I mean, what is - any key takeaways in terms of what we can do in terms of if - for those people who potentially are affected - what can we do for our homes to...
Trip Jennings 35:04
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 35:05
... to make them, you know, to lessen the risk, if you will.
Trip Jennings 35:10
Totally. You know, I think the message of the film, the overall message of the film, is that we don't have to fundamentally change forests all across the country, in order to decrease our risk to wildfire. We can do a lot of the things that need to happen in a weekend project. We can start, you know - I don't know how old your kids are, but they're probably old enough to go out there and start helping you with it, right; if you were in a fire prone area. I mean, it's things like boring, non-sexy details that we should think of as doing important climate adaptation work, right; we shouldn't be thinking about, oh it's just, you know, drudgery, and, you know, we - I think we should be thinking about these things as how we adapt as a society to climate change, which is the challenge of all of the generations that are present right now on Earth, right. And so, that said, it is - I mean, I'm talking about taking mesh screens to cover up vents for your attic. I'm talking about putting covers on your gutters, so that you don't have kindling, just accumulating in them, right. And I'm talking about switching the relationship - and this is a hard one for a lot of people - but switching the relationship between your garden beds and your walkways, right, we need to have a five foot noncombustible perimeter immediately surrounding the house, the entire house, we love to have our garden beds up against our house.; it's nice, we've gotten used to that. But if you could just move those garden beds five feet away, and put river stones, put concrete walkways, put flagstones, whatever you want to put there, right, can be very nice looking. But these are the things that take literally a weekend to do some of this stuff. Some of the bigger things - I mean, if you have a, if you still, for some reason have a wood shingle roof, you got to get rid of that if you're in a fire prone area. And so many places are fire prone now and becoming more so. If you have single pane windows, this is a great double dip, right, temperatures are becoming more extreme; we need to get better insulation, or value out of our windows, and a single pane window, of course, windy fires are the most dangerous fires, wind throws sticks, throws rocks, throws whatever at your windows, right; if you have one pane break and an ember gets inside, it burns your home from the inside out, right. So, multi-pane tempered glass. That's an expensive one, not a weekend project. But something worth saving up for to protect your entire home and all your memories. So, it's these little things. I want to tell one little story about how to think about this, which is we interviewed these folks in Paradise, California, that burned to the ground. They stayed, they didn't evacuate during the fire - I don't recommend this - but they had a plan, and they did it. They had 200 feet of garden hose and with that they protected their house and three neighbours' houses. And long after the fire front had passed, they watched a house catch from a little ember that had been somewhere stuck in the house being fanned by wind for hours, they watched on the corner across the street too far away from them to reach with their hose. The house burned down. It ignited, burned down to the ground. At the end, it ignited the wood fence. That wood fence wicked the flames over to the neighbour across the street. It burned that house down. And then eventually caught the other side of the wood fence on fire. And they watched 20 or so houses burn one by one, because they just couldn't get in there and intervene and put the fence fire out, right. So, it's the little things...
Matthew Sherwood 39:10
Right.
Trip Jennings 39:10
... and, you know, every home is obviously - I mean it's someone's life that is just a - you know, five years, a decade taken away of the rebuild, of all of that, but it's also the toxic smoke. It's the trees that we have to cut down to rebuild. So, I like to think of all of this as sort of climate adaptation that you can do in a weekend. You can be part of the solution in a weekend. Take down the five feet next to your house of your fence and put metal up instead.
Matthew Sherwood 39:44 (41:57)
And I think that's a very good point. I think the reality is we're going to have to [do] as much as we've got to do what we can to limit global warming. We are also - it's - that genie is out of the bottle and that ship sailed. So, we do also need adaptation. And as you point out, all these little things are actually helping with...
Trip Jennings 40:07
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, we can't, we shouldn't be saying, Oh, well, you know, without - when it comes to climate change, when it comes to carbon pollution, our individual actions are important, but they are not, you know, they're not the solution, right. They're not - our individual actions are good to reduce our own carbon footprint, but really, we need massive societal scale changes. These are things that will legitimately help you and the climate, I think, in the long run, that are small changes you can make in a weekend to your house. It's pretty cool.
Matthew Sherwood 40:48 (43:04)
It's extremely cool. And the little things are important in life. And are you seeing evidence that this is starting to happen, that people are taking this on board and doing these things?
Trip Jennings 41:02
Yeah. And not just on a individual level. Like, I see the beginnings of it. It's starting to become cool. It's, like, starting to trend. People are like, Oh, we should do this, we should do this.
Matthew Sherwood 41:12
Right.
Trip Jennings 41:12
And so, I think that the early adopters are into it. That's good. That's part of it becoming adopted. But we're also seeing from the top. We're seeing insurance companies, in places where you can't get market rate insurance, if you're in a certain area with a certain risk. We're seeing new certifications come out that if you do all of the things, you have a third party verify it, but suddenly, you can get, like, four times cheaper insurance at market rate. So, that's a huge boon. Big deal. And we're seeing, you know, we're also seeing people understand, I think, more and more, that it's worth doing.
Matthew Sherwood 41:56
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 41:56
... and I think, you know, as people lose insurance, which is a sort of a new thing over the last handful of years, you know, we're seeing the potential risk of kind of gutting a lot of middle class wealth, because people who can't get insurance can't sell their home for as much, right. And so, the fact that there's this, there's sort of this both carrot and stick...
Matthew Sherwood 42:23
Right.
Trip Jennings 42:23
... thing happening. So, yeah, I'm actually really excited. I think that it's happening, I think we need to see - what we need to see is more public support, public dollars. We need to put the money that we would put into, you know, things that are working not as well, that are not as effective, into this. But it's happening, it's happening, and I want people to watch the film, so they understand how important it is.
Matthew Sherwood 42:47 (45:12)
Well, exactly. And well done. And thanks, thanks for that. And actually, we're coming to the end of our time together, Trip. But before I let you go, I mean, back to the sort of the making of the film. How did you end up getting David Oyelowo to do the narration? That's quite a coup, isn't it?
Trip Jennings 43:09
Man, he is - the first time that I heard him say wildfire in the narration. I just got shivers up my spine and I was so happy.
Matthew Sherwood 43:19
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 43:21
We got the right guy. He lives in LA. He lives in Tarzana, a neighbourhood in LA. He looks over a hill that leads to wildland. He told us when we approached him that he could see wildfires pretty frequently. Like, most years, he can see wildfires. And he was just wondering when one was gonna get too close, right. And he was in the middle of doing some renovations on his home. And he watched our film, and he said, Hey, contractors, can we do some of this stuff to our home? And so, I think we approached him at a time when he had a need, you know, a need to understand what to do about wildfire. And I think he was just like, Yeah, this is important stuff.
Matthew Sherwood 44:11
So, did you have a different narrator before?
Trip Jennings 44:13
Oh, just me.
Matthew Sherwood 44:14
Okay.
Trip Jennings 44:15
There was never going to be a me. That was just a scratch. A scratch narrator, yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 44:20
Right. But then he saw a cut of the film. And - oh, that's really cool. That's really -
Trip Jennings 44:27
Really cool. Yeah, totally.
Matthew Sherwood 44:28
Yeah, no, because it's - I mean, do you feel - I mean, not that you needed it, but it's almost kind of adds - that just that voice. There's a certain gravitas that comes, you know...
Trip Jennings 44:36
Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. I mean, people hear differently. People hear a British male narrator in many different ways, but I do think it has some gravitas. I mean, you know, he is from Nigeria, so it's, he's not quite the coloniser that he might sound like! But, boy, his voice...
Matthew Sherwood 45:02
Yeah.
Trip Jennings 45:02
... I don't know. To me it's - yeah, I'm just like, I just will believe whatever you say, David.
Matthew Sherwood 45:07 (47:39)
Exactly. It's just those dulcet tones. You know, when he first started talking, I was like, wait a minute, I know that voice, you know - no, he's a very, very - well, that's great. I think it - yet again something else that adds to this film. So, I do again recommend, do check it out. And what's next for you after this project?
Trip Jennings 45:32
Oh well, my PBS show is kind of going from a smaller series to a much bigger series. So, I'll be in the Arctic this summer. I'll be chasing fires again. I'll be chasing hurricanes. And so, yeah, some storm chasing and just deep climate reporting on location for a series that comes out Earth Day next year on PBS.
Matthew Sherwood 45:58
Oh, wow.
Trip Jennings 45:59
Yeah, totally.
Matthew Sherwood 46:00
That sounds really cool. And, you know, when your - is it your child, or your son, is a bit older, he's gonna be like, my dad chases hurricanes and fights fires and does all kinds of really cool stuff.
Trip Jennings 46:14
I have this like, yeah, and I just - all I want to do is, like, bring him with me, you know. That's clearly not happening...
Matthew Sherwood 46:20
Not yet.
Trip Jennings 46:23
He's so fun to hang out with. I'm just like, Oh, you'd like this. And then I'm like, Oh, wait, it's gonna be like 30 degrees in August in the Arctic.
Matthew Sherwood 46:31
Right.
Trip Jennings 46:31
... I don't know. Maybe not. But he loves snuggling with his polar bear. And we won't be snuggling with them, but hopefully we'll be seeing them.
Matthew Sherwood 46:38
Yeah, yeah. Well, well, good luck with that. And look forward to seeing that when it comes out. And yes, just wanted to thank you again, Trip, for being on the podcast and educating us about forest fires, wildfires, whatever we want to call them: grass fires, and...
Trip Jennings 46:59
Wildfires, yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 47:00
Yes, wildfires; and giving us hope that there are solutions to these sort of - or things we can at least do to lessen or make things better. So, thanks again, so much. Just remind you, we've been talking with Trip Jennings, the director and writer of Elemental. It's theatrical release currently. Will be streaming on all the main channels, or platforms, I should say, in June sometime. And also check out the website, elementalfilm.com. Thanks again. I also would like to thank those who help make this podcast possible. A big shout out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio in York, England. Big thanks to Amy Ord, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show, and that everything otherwise runs smoothly. Finally, a big thanks to our listeners. Many of you have been with us for four incredible seasons. Please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas, whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. Please also remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 48:18
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures, specialising in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk